What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[fireproof78]

To have a Direct Window into Space for "Psychology's Sake" or "Personal Preference" is not "Logical"

Humans are not logical so that appeal falls flat.

If you want cold logic then just send robots please and there will be no fussing with that nasty psychology. You won't need a counselor or regulations on interpersonal relationships.

need to see outside, I'm sure we can turn on the Holo-Emitters and replicate the view outside for your station.

How's that?

Not good enough, to borrow a quote from Heinlein.

I just don't get the opposition to this. Have a view screen functionality built in to this window, an armored shutter if needed and then you don't have to send an officer to a second room to make observations if there is the need.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

How is wanting to maintain positive psychological state for your crew considered illogical? The ships are filled with creature comforts and amenities to make the crew feel at more at ease. Clearly Starfleet cares about the mental states of their crews.

But the windows are put in quarters and communal rooms on the side of the ship.

Not in the command center of the ship.

How is placing a window on the bridge on safe? The Enterprise D has a window to space, plus I'm pretty sure Voyager does as well. Are they unsafe?

1) It's a Small Moon Roof Dome on top.
2) It's fairly small compared to the floor area of the Bridge, barely larger than the size of a person
3) Since it's so small, in the event of a breach, it can be quickly sealed up given it's small size.

And what happens when they inevitably go down like every other system on a Starship seems to go down every other week?

We deal with it like in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY did.
It hasn't been a problem through countless TV shows.

The windows seen on the bridge of the modern shows and movies have never been depicted as purely windows. You know that. They're multifunctional, with heads up displays that can convey any sort of information, same as if you screen. They are literally The Best of Both Worlds.

Except for the need to position the Bridge on top of the Saucer so you have a Bridge that is a "Prime Target" for the opponents since they can easily figure out that StarFleet designs their bridge to sit right on top & center of the Dorsal section of the Saucer.

Ergo making it a "Easy Prime Target".

We even see it getting destroyed in ST:ENT in a alternate time-line.

 

[Blip]

1) To date, no series or movie has depicted the real events, people, environments or technologies of the Trekverse accurately to how they actually happened or appeared.

2) Transporters are the one piece of Treknology I absolutely loathe the idea of. You wanna disintegrate me, turn me into energy and then hopefully recycle that energy into a new clone of me? Uh, no thanks - that would still leave the original me dead, regardless of whether you can't tell any difference.

 

[Firebird]

To have a Direct Window into Space for "Psychology's Sake" or "Personal Preference" is not "Logical"

When safety of the Bridge Crew is more paramount in space than "Your Feelings".

Once more, I can tell you’ve never been in a leadership position or responsible for others’ wellbeing.

The physical AND mental health of the people serving on a vessel should be paramount in any situation.

 

[HotRod]

We deal with it like in TOS

How would you know?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Humans are not logical so that appeal falls flat.

Depends on the humans you're dealing with.

If you want cold logic then just send robots please and there will be no fussing with that nasty psychology. You won't need a counselor or regulations on interpersonal relationships.

We do that already, at some point, we send in people after the robots have come in and do the preliminary run.

Not good enough, to borrow a quote from Heinlein.

That's the way I feel about the Bridge sitting in a vulnerable position on top of the saucer.

It's a "EASY & OBVIOUS" fix that fans of ST have complained about since the beginning of the franchise.

I just don't get the opposition to this. Have a view screen functionality built in to this window, an armored shutter if needed and then you don't have to send an officer to a second room to make observations if there is the need.

You know what's better than Transparent Aluminium Window & Armored Shutter?

Burying your Bridge into your Ship & having a dedicated Armored Shell around your bridge
+ Every Wall / Deck Floor Plate contain Armored Panels designed to resist Energy Weapons blast from StarShip Grade Energy Weapons (Ergo Small Arms based Energy Weapons that people carry do jack squat damage when unleashed in the confines of the ship).

So it's MUCH harder to hurt the Bridge Crew since they would be in what is effectively a Command Center Safe Room with multiple decks worth of Armor Plating around them in all directions.

StarShip grade energy weapons blasts needs to penetrate Multiple Decks/Walls just to get to the Armored Shell around your bridge module / CIC command room.

That's the type of safety I'm proposing.

All critical rooms inside a StarShip + Structural Skeletal structural Frame members would feature heavier Armor around key critical operational area's of a vessel.

Non Critical members of the ship wouldn't use that level of armor.

But the core pieces that make the vessel function would be heavily protected.

How would you know?

It's called reading through Memory Alpha about specific subject matter.

TOS does come up A LOT when going through Memory Alpha.

Once more, I can tell you’ve never been in a leadership position or responsible for others’ wellbeing.

The physical AND mental health of the people serving on a vessel should be paramount in any situation.

If you need to look outside, go to another room and look outside where there is a window.

It's not like I'm forbidding the crew from never looking out of a window for the rest of their service on the vessel.

It's just in the Bridge, you wouldn't have a Window.

You look at Med-Bay, they generally don't have windows?

You visit Engineering, when did they ever have windows?

The Main Computer Room, they are generally closed without windows.

Plenty of other places on the ship have no windows and they work just fine w/o them.

Yet the staff manage to survive just fine by taking breaks and going to other parts of the vessel that has windows into natural space.

 

[HotRod]

You know what's better than Transparent Aluminium Window & Armored Shutter?

Burying your Bridge into your Ship & having a dedicated Armored Shell around your bridge

When you make your own franchise, you're welcome to place the bridge wherever you want.

Star Trek clearly likes to place the bridge at the top of a saucer. They've been doing it for 60 years. They want the audience to be able to place where their heroes are located.

Is it tactically the best place? No. But if your shields go down, it doesn't really matter where the bridge is, you're pretty much fucked no matter what.

Placing a window on the bridge gives a decent enough reason for wanting the bridge someplace with a good point of view.

I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't the Enterprise appear to have a Window in The Cage? I seem to recall a rectangular shape on the front of the bridge module, right about where the viewscreen would be.

 

[fireproof78]

Depends on the humans you're dealing with.

"Man is not a rational creature; he is a rationalizing creature."

Humans are driven by both things, often in extremes. But simply going "safety " isn't sufficient for many humans. I saw this on display yesterday in a small way.

We do that already, at some point, we send in people after the robots have come in and do the preliminary run.

Why? Robots have sensors, data devices and have no psychological needs to mess with. Stick with the robots, and command them from afar.

It's a "EASY & OBVIOUS" fix that fans of ST have complained about since the beginning of the franchise

Star Trek clearly likes to place the bridge at the top of a saucer. They've been doing it for 60 years. They want the audience to be able to place where their heroes are located.

Clearly a non-issue as the franchise has demonstrated without much problems. One destruction of a bridge over multiple episodes clearly indicates a non-issue over the course of the franchise.

Of course, the same is said of the view screens so maybe it's not pure logic.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

When you make your own franchise, you're welcome to place the bridge wherever you want.

Okay, I already do that with My Head Cannon.

If I ever get creative control of designing the vessel, I'll be sure to do that.

Star Trek clearly likes to place the bridge at the top of a saucer. They've been doing it for 60 years. They want the audience to be able to place where their heroes are located.

There are other ways to indicate that w/o having a dome stand out on top of the saucer.

The Expanse manages to have their CIC buried into the hull of the vessel.

Is it tactically the best place? No.

But if your shields go down, it doesn't really matter where the bridge is, you're pretty much fucked no matter what.

Unless you have Multiple Layers of Physical Armor on top of Many Layers of Shielding.

Ablative Hull Armor was a thing in the 24th Century, it was on the USS Defiant and was being retro-fitted across the fleet.
Ablative Hull Armor Generator was introduced at the end of Voyager. Armor that can be replicated into place.

If that becomes a common staple moving forward, we can see StarFleet Ships be extra tough with extra layers of hull armor + Shields.

Multiple Layers of Shields (Skin Shields + Bubble Shields + Drones Flying around with Shield Walls) + Ablative Hull Armor Generator + Ablative Hull Armor.

Placing a window on the bridge gives a decent enough reason for wanting the bridge someplace with a good point of view.

That's you wanting to implement JJ-Abrams version of a Bridge Window.

I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't the Enterprise appear to have a Window in The Cage? I seem to recall a rectangular shape on the front of the bridge module, right about where the viewscreen would be.

Not to my knowledge, but I'm not as familiar with the Enterprise that appeared in "The Cage".
I'm more familiar with later incarnations of the Connie.

 

[Turtletrekker]

How is wanting to maintain positive psychological state for your crew considered illogical? The ships are filled with creature comforts and amenities to make the crew feel at more at ease. Clearly Starfleet cares about the mental states of their crews.

Agreed. Even the Death Star had recreational facilities.

DS-1 Orbital Battle Station

The DS-1 Orbital Battle Station, also designated as the DS-1 Death Star Mobile Battle Station, referred to as the Ultimate Weapon in early development stages, later known as the Death Star I or the First Death Star, often simply referred to as the Death Star, and codenamed Stardust, was a...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

"Man is not a rational creature; he is a rationalizing creature."

Humans are driven by both things, often in extremes. But simply going "safety " isn't sufficient for many humans. I saw this on display yesterday in a small way.

Okay, whatevers.

Why? Robots have sensors, data devices and have no psychological needs to mess with. Stick with the robots, and command them from afar.

Because Exploration via Robots only go so far.

And in ST, StarFleet and members of them don't mind the risk.

Wasn't it you who quoted Captain Kirk: "Risk is our Business"

You can send in all the probes, robots, etc to gather preliminary data.

After some point, you do send in people.

Clearly a non-issue as the franchise has demonstrated without much problems. One destruction of a bridge over multiple episodes clearly indicates a non-issue over the course of the franchise.

2x Technically.

ST:ENT had it in a alternate time-line where the entire bridge of the NX-01 was destroyed and the vessel was adrift before it got destroyed.

ST:NEM had it with the Bridge getting blasted open and exposed into space with some poor crewman getting vented into space.

ST:LD had the Bridge exposed into space at the end of S2.E10 when they had to cross hazardous debris field and needed to vent off outter panels to reach the StarFleet vessel tumbling out of control.
And they were lucky the bridge wasn't in a worse state being exposed to the elements of space w/o armored panels in front or a View Screen.

 

[fireproof78]

After some point, you do send in people.

Why? Based on the technology level that should not be a preliminary level but actually occupy multiple levels of exploration.

And they were lucky the bridge wasn't in a worse state being exposed to the elements of space w/o armored panels in front or a View Screen.

As I previously argued those armored shutters could easily function over a multifunctional window and still satisfy the backup system function.

That's you wanting to implement JJ-Abrams version of a Bridge Window.

There good reason for it and only altering the fundamental design language of Star Trek and ignore all the attacks that didn't result in bridge loss, not just with Starfleet but also Klingons, do we find no bridge on the top favorable.

 

[HotRod]

So just for my own sake, I just did a quick bit of searching and it does not appear that the Bridge Window made it to filming on The Cage, but the studio model was originally built with one.

 

[Set Harth]

Okay, I already do that with My Head Cannon.

Well, if you have a Head Cannon then clearly people will be disincentivized from disagreeing with your bridge placement!
head cannon go BOOM

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Why? Based on the technology level that should not be a preliminary level but actually occupy multiple levels of exploration.

Because nobody wants to sit around and watch the Robotic Explorer team in their command center talking.

We watch Star Trek because it has people in it, doing the exploring.

As I previously argued those armored shutters could easily function over a multifunctional window and still satisfy the backup system function.

And you wouldn't even need Shutters if your Bridge was buried inside.

But my objectives and your objectives are different.

There good reason for it and only altering the fundamental design language of Star Trek and ignore all the attacks that didn't result in bridge loss, not just with Starfleet but also Klingons, do we find no bridge on the top favorable.

Bridge on top is a "Fundamental Design Language" now?

Well, things can change.

We got to see StarShips w/o pylons in the 32nd century.

We got to see Ships w/o necks and floating units in the 32nd century.

Things are always subject to change.

Well, if you have a Head Cannon then clearly people will be disincentivized from disagreeing with your bridge placement!

Bridge placement isn't a new argument, it's a very old one.

Go ahead and check the internet, this argument is pretty common.

 

[fireproof78]

Because nobody wants to sit around and watch the Robotic Explorer team in their command center talking.

We watch Star Trek because it has people in it, doing the exploring.

I enjoy the moments of Mission Control with the Apollo films.

And you wouldn't even need Shutters if your Bridge was buried inside.

But my objectives and your objectives are different.

Mine are based on what's presented.

Bridge on top is a "Fundamental Design Language" now?

Is there evidence to the contrary?

 

[1001001]

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I'm reminded of this scene from The Right Stuff.

That’s exactly what I thought about too.

 

[korblborp]

I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't the Enterprise appear to have a Window in The Cage? I seem to recall a rectangular shape on the front of the bridge module, right about where the viewscreen would be.

it has a shape on the outside, but it could just be an emergency access blowout/cut here or equipment loading area (like for maybe replacing the screen wholesale) but it isn't indented, or lit like the other windows, soo...

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I enjoy the moments of Mission Control with the Apollo films.

Okay great, ST isn't about that.

Mine are based on what's presented.

Mine is based on what is logical for improved Trek World Building.

Is there evidence to the contrary?

All of Gene's "Roddenberry's Design Rules" gets violated over time anyways.

Warp Nacelles must be in pairs, we do have StarShip designs with Odd # of Warp Nacelles working out.

We have StarFleet StarShips with Warp Nacelles w/o the 50% Line of Sight Rules.

The Steam Runner and several other StarShips have their Warp Nacelles not exposed out in front.

The Shenzhou & the Walker Class had the Bridge on the Ventral (Bottom) side of the Saucer.

The Battle Bridge of the Enterprise-D is buried into the hull already.

It's only a matter of time before that becomes standard on newer vessels.

it has a shape on the outside, but it could just be an emergency access blowout/cut here or equipment loading area (like for maybe replacing the screen wholesale) but it isn't indented, or lit like the other windows, soo...

It could be the lamp to light up the Hull Markings that is on the saucer so everybody can see the Vessel's Name & Registry #

The Placement is literally just behind the text.

 

[HotRod]

improved Trek World Building.

Maybe in your opinion. Personally, I think most of your ideas are horrible, but that's me.