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Spoilers All Things STAR WARS - News, Speculation & Spoilers Thread

So, after all of these years the original cut of Star Wars has finally been screened for an audience, and the verdict? "Looks terrible." :lol:

While I can't judge the quality of the print they viewed, reacting thusly to the VFX, props, sets, etc. is a fairly pathetic reaction.

My view of the despecialized version of the 1977 film I recently saw is that it is nothing short of sublime. I felt as I did when I was a kid watching the film for the first half-dozen times, almost fifty years ago. And with very few exceptions the original version is preferable to the new versions. A recurring complaint I have is that the transitions to and from the new scenes wreck the flow of the original musical soundtrack, but that is far from the only one. The quality of the CGI is wanting to say the least, and with the glaring contrast between inadequate CGI and brilliantly executed model work in the final space battle, that's its own kind of bad experience.
 
Han Solo kind of wanted to take out Greedo though for awhile. Constantly calling him a nerf herder and Maclunkey and joking about how he got his name from some security checkpoint guard. He wouldn't let up on the guy.
 
(Copying my comment from the Acolyte thread)
Yeesh. Some serious uncanny valley vibes from Han and Lando's faces. Lando looks a bit like Greef Karga. They either need to get it right, or go for a more stylized look.
 
1977 Han Solo was a stone cold killer when backed against the wall.
More of a slouch against the wall.
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While I can't judge the quality of the print they viewed, reacting thusly to the VFX, props, sets, etc. is a fairly pathetic reaction.

My view of the despecialized version of the 1977 film I recently saw is that it is nothing short of sublime. I felt as I did when I was a kid watching the film for the first half-dozen times, almost fifty years ago. And with very few exceptions the original version is preferable to the new versions. A recurring complaint I have is that the transitions to and from the new scenes wreck the flow of the original musical soundtrack, but that is far from the only one. The quality of the CGI is wanting to say the least, and with the glaring contrast between inadequate CGI and brilliantly executed model work in the final space battle, that's its own kind of bad experience.
You do realise that the despecialized edition is not the version you saw 50 years ago, right? It's a fan made re-edit, mostly assembled from Lucas's remastering for the blu-ray, and some *heavily* cleaned up prints from varying sources and resolutions. In short; it benefits *immensely* from all of the negative cleaning and restoration work Lucas did for the SE re-releases (not to mention the sound mix, and re-compositing some original VFX elements to eliminate artefacts.) In short; it's a version of the film that never actually existed.

So yes, the version you saw 50 years ago was just as "terrible" as the print just put on display. You may not remember it that way, but that's how rose tinted glasses work. It's like going back and trying to watch an old VHS on a 25" CRT TV after decades of being used to high def video and flat-screens. It never matches with how you remember it, because back then you didn't know any better.
 
You do realise that the despecialized edition is not the version you saw 50 years ago, right?
Of course. :rolleyes:

So yes, the version you saw 50 years ago was just as "terrible" as the print just put on display.
I'll just repeat myself.

"While I can't judge the quality of the print they viewed"

I haven't seen such a print in 50 years. I think I made that very clear.

I also thought I made it very clear that my remarks in the first paragraph were directed at comments made about the production that had nothing to do with the quality of the print.
 
I'm just illustrating that (a vanishingly small proportion of) people may say they want "the original version, just as it was!", but what they really want is a remastered and cleaned up version of an unfinished, highly compromised cut of a nearly 50 year old film. I mean they can want that all the live long day, but there's a good reason why it's not going to happen.

It'd be like going to great expense to rebuild Michelangelo's David, but in the state it was in 2/3rds of the way in when he couldn't quite get the nose looking right, and it was still a solid block of marble from the knees down. All because some people got their first glimpse of it like that, and ever-after obsessed over that specific version of it. It's both ludicrous, and intensely disrespectful towards the artist in question.

I'm all for making a half decent scan of an original* print available for historical/archival purposes, but I don't think very many people are going to be exactly champing at the bit to see some grainy, off-colour footage with slightly more stilted dogfighting shots, and some vaseline on the lens that one time.

* The word "original" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, for reasons that should be obvious for anyone with even a passing familiarity with the number and frequency of changes that film went though post-release.
 
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How hard would it be to just take modern cuts of classic SW and remove all the bad CGI stuff added in the 90's special editions and some stuff added or changed later?
 
Han and Greedo shooting at the same time could be taken out along with "Maclunkey" and I'd be more than happy with the modern version.
 
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That darn Dewback that walks in front of the camera for sure needs to go as well, along with some of the animals and aliens doing wacky hijinks in town. The musical number for sure also needs to go in Return of the Jedi.
 
The Ronto that blocks our view of the Landspeeder and a really cool orange astromech droid rolling by right before the "these aren't the droids you're looking for" scene didn't need to be added, but even that lumbering 1997 CGI animal butt isn't as egregious as Greedo shooting first.
 
How hard would it be to just take modern cuts of classic SW and remove all the bad CGI stuff added in the 90's special editions and some stuff added or changed later?
I can name like four different people/teams who have done it, but it's not quite so simple as it sounds. I recently looked into it because I was trying to find versions of the original cuts for my Plex server.

There are the negative scans, that have gone back to actual film prints of the movies from their original releases and scanned those, but they have generation loss and damage. There's also physical effects that mean that projecting an incandescent light through a film will look different from projecting a laser light through an electronic screen, which will look different from a stand-alone screen, and all the variations within those different types of presentation, so you'll have to decide how strong you want the color and contrast to be. Do you try to match your 47-year-old-memory, or the current state of the film that was scanned, or an old VHS release, or the latest official version? A lot of studios (or even the original filmmakers) will change how the color, brightness, focus, and grain look on a movie when preparing it for a new release format like 4K disc, unconsciously or consciously being influenced by later styles of filmmaking, and/or taking into account technical differences in the format (in 4K, the screen can be brighter or darker without clipping to black or white, so some filmmakers take advantage of that in ways they couldn't on older formats) so you'll get a lot of debate from fans about how it should look. There was a good amount of debate over the new grading over the 4K release of the Lord of the Rings movies, for instance, as well as about the color grades for the original Star Wars movies (here are comparisons of the 2011 and 2020 disc releases, which were noticeably different).

There's also apparently a missing/extra frame in some of the versions of the "original" cut of Star Wars that can throw off the audio timing, so that's a point of conflict between different restorers. They used a different vocal performance for Aunt Beru in the mono sound mix of the original release compared to the stereo and later releases, so some people think that's the original, while others find it off-putting and odd when reconstructions or fan-edits use it because they grew up with the VHS of the "original." That's not even getting into things like the Star Wars opening crawl being changed to add "EPISODE IV - A NEW HOPE," or the extra spaceship shot added to the end of ESB a week after its initial release.

It's all a huge damn mess. Fans are left to be making highly technical and creative decisions that should be up to the filmmakers, but Lucas et al. have abdicated their preservationist responsiblilites, and now if you want to watch the "original" Star Wars as it was when it was released, you can choose between the grimey film-print scan (with or without grain reduction), or the 2003/2011/2020 version as a base with only the alterations removed (and then is it going to be all of the alterations, or will they leave "invisible" ones like the fixed perspective on the hallway of the Death Star prison level or the removed matte-boxes around spaceships?). There are semi-specialized versions that leave some additions but remove ones that are disliked by fandom, but do people dislike the same ones as you? Personally, I prefer the SE ending of RotJ to Yub-Nub, but others disagree.

Personally, I think you get exactly one (1) creator-authorized alternate cut; once you change the movie publicly more than that, people are going to start mixing-and-matching in their heads and wanting to make their own versions with just the changes they like. Do you think I like the fact that I need a flow-chart to describe my platonic ideal of the first Star Trek movie? I sound like a crazy person when I talk about it.
 
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I'm just illustrating that (a vanishingly small proportion of) people may say they want "the original version, just as it was!", but what they really want is a remastered and cleaned up version of an unfinished, highly compromised cut of a nearly 50 year old film.

Yes, the vast majority of fans who want the OT without all the bells and whistles added in the 90s and beyond want "remastered and cleaned up versions" of those movies, and most of them would probably be perfectly fine with subtle FX work such as cleaning up matte lines. If Lucasfilm had produced the Despecialized editions, and sold them as alternatives to the (multiple versions of the) Special Editions, that same vast majority of fans would be happy. Some would still want to collect straight-up unrestored scans of initial prints or whatever, but they'd be another story.

Anyhow, good on Lucasfilm for letting preservationists and tinkerers such as Harmy and Adywan quietly do their things, and not hounding them for it. Praise to both Lucas and Kennedy there.


How hard would it be to just take modern cuts of classic SW and remove all the bad CGI stuff added in the 90's special editions and some stuff added or changed later?

That's basically what Harmy did with the Despecialized editions, years ago. I'm sure it was a lot of work, but a small number of people did it for free, on their own time:

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See, when I say I want the original unaltered trilogy, I mean it: I want the original version, warts and all.

The original Star Wars was groundbreaking. It won tons of awards for how it changed filmmaking. Suppressing the original version is a disservice to those who worked on the movie. I get that Lucas calls the original version unfinished. I get that many fans grew up with the special editions. I have no problem with that. Hell, I’d probably watch the special edition more than the original versions. I just want decent transfers to be able to watch if I feel like it. I want to see the garbage mattes. I want the dodgy effects.

The recent screening gives me hope that MAYBE we’ll get that someday.
 
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