Pedantic Jerk

[Metryq]

In the recent thread on salt vampires and the transporter, I mentioned the episode "That Which Survives." I hadn't seen that one in a long while and decided to review it.

And then I remembered one of the reasons I hadn't viewed the episode in a long while. In every interaction with Spock, he was acting like a pedantic jerk. "Nine hundred and ninety point seven light years to be exact, Lieutenant," or "I would calculate fourteen point eight seven minutes, Mister Scott." This was like some unfunny comedian's parody of Mr. Spock that totally missed the mark. He was out of character, like Kirk in "Requiem for Methuselah."

I hope McCoy was able to surgically remove that bug from his butt before it killed him.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Kirk and Spock are both models of toxic leadership in this episode. Kirk is snarky with his staff for no reason. It doesn't sit right.

At least the casting gave us some familiar faces. Lee Meriwether was on The Time Tunnel, and she played Catwoman the Second in Batman. Arthur Batanides was a Genre TV frequent flyer: The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, Lost in Space, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, The Green Hornet, Man from Atlantis, Wonder Woman, Galactica 1980...

I thought he did Batman, but I don't see it listed.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I thought he did Batman, but I don't see it listed.

According to Google AI:

Arthur Batanides did not appear as a villain in the "Batman" TV series (1966-1968). However, he is known for other roles. He often played "heavies" in shows such as "I Spy" and "Mission: Impossible," and sometimes spoofed these roles in programs like "Get Smart".

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

Kirk and Spock are both models of toxic leadership in this episode. Kirk is snarky with his staff for no reason. It doesn't sit right.

I don't believe Spock was THAT out of character, and it did lead to some entertaining retorts from Scotty. Uhura gets a bit of Spockiness herself at one point, but politely shrugs it off.

Kirk was snarky with Sulu twice in Act One, but not D'Amato or McCoy. Perhaps Kirky simply doesn't appreciate thinner actors in yellow. It would explain many of his comments to Chekov.

 

[BillJ]

What is the line from Into Darkness? "I'm Vulcan, we embrace technicalities." I didn't have an issue with Spock expecting precision from the crew.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What is the line from Into Darkness? "I'm Vulcan, we embrace technicalities." I didn't have an issue with Spock expecting precision from the crew.

But it was written by English majors who knew nothing about significant digits. Spock would state or demand non-existent levels of precision. Like he'd never studied math.

Also, they made it seem as if Spock didn't understand the passage of time. When he is given a time estimate in seconds, and he demands three digits after the decimal point, that's ridiculous. How much time is passing while his subordinate says the words, that she could state a time to the thousandth of a second?

 

[Phaser Two]

One of the issues with TOS that I've come to appreciate with age is that the characterization of Spock varied as much as the identities of the writers did, and for some reason, the producers didn't put a stop to it. This results in wild variances in how Spock acts from episode to episode, especially when he was in command.

By contrast, for whatever reason Kirk's characterization and portrayal remains remarkably consistent from episode to episode.

 

[Metryq]

Because he's Kirk.

 

[Phaser Two]

Because he's Kirk.

Yeah. But I've never really been able to come up with a good behind-the-scenes rationale for it. Maybe it was Shatner exercising greater creative control over his character than Nimoy did. But that is an unsatisfactory explanation, because some of the crazy swings in Spock's characterization (though not all) occur within S3, when Nimoy (and everyone else) already knew darn well that Spock was the "breakout character." One thing that jumps to mind - Spock is wildly different in "The Mark of Gideon" and "The Paradise Syndrome" than he is in "That Which Survives" - and he was in command of the ship for substantially all three of those episodes.

 

[BillJ]

One of the issues with TOS that I've come to appreciate with age is that the characterization of Spock varied as much as the identities of the writers did, and for some reason, the producers didn't put a stop to it. This results in wild variances in how Spock acts from episode to episode, especially when he was in command.

By contrast, for whatever reason Kirk's characterization and portrayal remains remarkably consistent from episode to episode.

Because Spock is a fantasy from a fantasy land.

 

[mb22]

Nimoy complained a lot to producer Fred Freibeger about the writing during the third season.

 

[Phaser Two]

Nimoy complained a lot to producer Fred Freibeger about the writing during the third season.

Sure. It's just odd that given that, the writers still almost always got Kirk right no matter when it was in the series.

 

[Zycho32]

Sure. It's just odd that given that, the writers still almost always got Kirk right no matter when it was in the series.

In fairness, what exactly was there to get wrong?

The hero archetype, especially back in those days, seemed especially cut and dry as far as character creations go. Almost generic, really. Steadfast and true, halfway stoic, only occasionally challenged personality-wise by the conventions of the plot(usually with an Episodic Romance a la "City on the Edge of Forever"). If you weren't taking Kirk in a vastly different direction, you weren't really doing anything outside of what was already established because you weren't doing that to your Hero character on a weekly basis.

So you could in fact put Kirk on autopilot even though his top billing status would imply extra care must be given.

Spock, by virtue of being a supporting character from the start, was designed more or less to bounce around Kirk as a foil. This remained the case throughout the series, regardless of how popular his character became, but we all know this. The simple truth is, he was still being written as a foil- practically an edict from above- and yes, sometimes the writers involved do fail to give him the proper attention but what usually happens is the character still gets written as a foil to the Hero... and in terms of command, especially emergency command while the Hero is incapacitated or unavailable, the foil is forced to look...inadequate, something to remind you why the Hero needs to be in charge.

That said, I've found the scenario where Kirk and Party are trapped somewhere while the E is suddenly an unfathomable and mysterious distance away (That Which Survives, Gamsters of Triskelion, even The Tholian Web) the most distasteful when it comes to Spock's character in command, because I think in all three instances, he's forced to be the flawed-to-near-inadequacy Foil on his pretend throne for the sake of character drama- only Tholian Web actually got to take that problem to an appealing conclusion. The rest was pretty much 'E arrives, party is saved, cue credits', leaving the 'pedantic crap' as unresolved episode vamping.

 

[Ssosmcin]

TBH, Kirk was more introspective and carrying more self doubt at the start of the series - he and Pike were roughly the same character on the page. The difference is in delivery and energy. He also evolved, but it was less obvious because his character was the "hero type" that people could easily identify with or recognize. Even Shatner admitted that, as the series went on, he put more of himself in the role - an idealized version. By the mid 2nd season, there wasn't as much of the "Hornblower" aspect until the John Meredyth Lucas episodes - specifically "The Ultimate Computer."

However, the differences weren't that stark and Kirk is recognizable and fits in. Shatner nailed it on day one (he commands the screen in the second pilot) but Nimoy had the harder character to carve out. Watching Spock from "The Cage" to "Turnabout Intruder" is a study in evolution. That's what happens when you create a totally unique character. Over on CBS, Jonathan Harris was doing likewise on Lost in Space.

I honestly found Spock to be more interesting in his infant stages - from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" to around "The Menagerie." The little smiles, the raising of the voice at odd times and the utter coldness bordering on hostility. He wasn't cuddly, he was alien. By the time he was jamming with Space Hippies, Spock was just the science nerd in the office who didn't read social cues.

 

[Forbin]

I was always amused when Spock quoted a time duration to two decimal points, that was obsolete by the time he finished vocalizing it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Because Spock is a fantasy from a fantasy land.

Much as we all believe in the Vulcan people , I can't say you're wrong. The best writing is based on keen observations of human behavior, and there's no reliable roadmap for this guy.

I think Spock is a very hard character to write for, unless he is either the exposition (the fact checker, the Answer Man), or the wild card, driven out of his normal personality by intrusive forces (The Naked Time, Amok Time, This Side of Paradise, A Private Little War, Operation: Annihilate, Return to Tomorrow, All Our Yesterdays).

Going to the other extreme: I think it's neat that in "Spock's Brain," Spock became 100% cool, logical, and unperturbed once his brain was no longer getting any hormonal influences from his body.

You are your body, and when the brain is taken separately, you become someone else, almost like "The Enemy Within." That aspect was good sci-fi in "Spock's Brain," whether intentional or not.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

What is the line from Into Darkness? "I'm Vulcan, we embrace technicalities." I didn't have an issue with Spock expecting precision from the crew.

I'd love to see Spock (be it Nimoy's or Quinto's) expecting 21st century highschoolers to put away their damn cellphones.

By contrast, for whatever reason Kirk's characterization and portrayal remains remarkably consistent from episode to episode.

Squint, jump up, duck right, laugh lightly, slap your opponent twice across the face, prepare the flying leg...

Nimoy complained a lot to producer Fred Freibeger about the writing during the third season.

Justifiably.

That said, I've found the scenario where Kirk and Party are trapped somewhere while the E is suddenly an unfathomable and mysterious distance away (That Which Survives, Gamsters of Triskelion, even The Tholian Web) the most distasteful when it comes to Spock's character in command, because I think in all three instances, he's forced to be the flawed-to-near-inadequacy Foil on his pretend throne for the sake of character drama- only Tholian Web actually got to take that problem to an appealing conclusion.

I actually prefer it when you separate Kirkenspock, because they're both leading men in the end, and both can play off the supporting players more in creative ways rather than just McCoy (see the majority of third-year-beamdowns).