Critical Care

[Captrek]

Let’s start over and this time leave the Doctor out of it and see if that keeps things cooler.

New scenario. This hypothetical scenario is in broad strokes similar to Critical Care. A doctor — it’s not the Doctor, it’s someone you don’t like — is working in a hospital in a world where the privileged have medicine that is more badly needed by commoners. He asks the administrator to reallocate meds from the privileged to the needy and is told no.

Should this hypothetical person poison the administrator in order to force that reallocation? Under what circumstances should or shouldn’t he?

 

[Farscape One]

You are taking this too personally. Let’s take the Doctor out of the equation.

New scenario. This scenario is in broad strokes similar to Critical Care. A doctor — it’s not the Doctor, it’s someone you don’t like — is working in a hospital in a world where the privileged have medicine that is more badly needed by commoners. He asks the administrator to reallocate meds from the privileged to the needy and is told no.

Should this hypothetical person poison the administrator in order to force that reallocation?

Was this person kidnapped and forced to work there, like The Doctor was in "CRITICAL CARE"?

If he was, then yes.

If he was not, then no.

 

[Captrek]

Was this person kidnapped and forced to work there, like The Doctor was in "CRITICAL CARE"?

If he was, then yes.

If he was not, then no.

Very good.

Please explain why a kidnapped doctor should poison the administrator.

 

[Farscape One]

Very good.

Please explain why a kidnapped doctor should poison the administrator.

He or she is held there against their will. Stuck there, with no apparent escape possible, they have every right to use whatever means at their disposal to escape. If the only means left is poisoning the administrator, then it's justified.

 

[Captrek]

He or she is held there against their will. Stuck there, with no apparent escape possible, they have every right to use whatever means at their disposal to escape. If the only means left is poisoning the administrator, then it's justified.

Ah, you have refined your answer. First:

                +---------------------------+
                | Was the doctor kidnapped? |
                +---------------------------+
                      /            \
                     /              \
                [Yes]               [No]
                   |                  |
                   v                  v
       +--------------------+   +-------------------------+
       |     Do poison      |   |      Do Not Poison      |
       +--------------------+   +-------------------------+

Now:

                +---------------------------+
                | Was the doctor kidnapped? |
                +---------------------------+
                      /            \
                     /              \
                [Yes]               [No]
                   |                  |
                   |                  v
                   |            +-------------------------+
                   |            |      Do Not Poison      |
                   |            +-------------------------+
                   v                         ^
+-----------------------------------+        |
| Is poisoning only way to escape?  |--[No]—-+
+-----------------------------------+
                   |
                 [Yes]
                   |
                   v
           +---------------+
           |   Do poison   |
           +---------------+

Am I understanding you correctly? Are any more significant refinements necessary?

 

[Farscape One]

Ah, you have refined your answer. First:

                +---------------------------+
                | Was the doctor kidnapped? |
                +---------------------------+
                      /            \
                     /              \
                [Yes]               [No]
                   |                  |
                   v                  v
       +--------------------+   +-------------------------+
       |     Do poison      |   |      Do Not Poison      |
       +--------------------+   +-------------------------+

Now:

                +---------------------------+
                | Was the doctor kidnapped? |
                +---------------------------+
                      /            \
                     /              \
                [Yes]               [No]
                   |                  |
                   |                  v
                   |            +-------------------------+
                   |            |      Do Not Poison      |
                   |            +-------------------------+
                   v                         ^
+-----------------------------------+        |
| Is poisoning only way to escape?  |--[No]—-+
+-----------------------------------+
                   |
                 [Yes]
                   |
                   v
           +---------------+
           |   Do poison   |
           +---------------+

Am I understanding you correctly? Are any more significant refinements necessary?

I'm not sure why you need to turn this into some kind of equation. But if you want to go with this, okay. Not sure what your point is on this one. A kidnapped person has every right to do whatever they can to get themselves out.

 

[Turtletrekker]

A fascinating thought is that these are exactly the kind of things that the Doctor will still have total perfect recall of 800 years later in Starfleet Academy. How do things like this weigh on him over the centuries?

 

[at Quark's]

A kidnapped person has every right to do whatever they can to get themselves out.

Whatever they can? Up to and including actually murdering the kidnapper if that would be necessary to escape?

(Not saying I disagree, I'm not sure where I stand on this one.)

 

[Captrek]

I'm not sure why you need to turn this into some kind of equation. But if you want to go with this, okay. Not sure what your point is on this one. A kidnapped person has every right to do whatever they can to get themselves out.

A question, not a point. I’m not playing advocate here. My only intention is what I have said all along: to clarify what others consider just and injust.

If that second flowchart accurately describes your position, then the question is answered. I now know the standards under which you would judge the hypothetical person. Thank you.

Other posters may agree with that standard or offer their own alternatives. I look forward to seeing that.

 

[Farscape One]

Whatever they can? Up to and including actually murdering the kidnapper if that would be necessary to escape?

(Not saying I disagree, I'm not sure where I stand on this one.)

Absolutely.

You don't know what the kidnappers intentions are. For all you know, kidnapping is just merely the beginning. Rape, torture, mutilation, or killing you could very easily be what they have planned.

Damned right you do whatever you need to do in order to escape, including killing them if it comes down to it.

 

[Michael]

Let’s start over and this time leave the Doctor out of it and see if that keeps things cooler.

New scenario. This hypothetical scenario is in broad strokes similar to Critical Care. A doctor — it’s not the Doctor, it’s someone you don’t like — is working in a hospital in a world where the privileged have medicine that is more badly needed by commoners. He asks the administrator to reallocate meds from the privileged to the needy and is told no.

Should this hypothetical person poison the administrator in order to force that reallocation? Under what circumstances should or shouldn’t he?

Not convinced we won’t ultimately go in circles with this one either, but I’ll try and play.

You say this scenario is similar in broad strokes to “Critical Care”, but I think to answer your question I would need some more information about how it differs …



Is this about some medicine of a nondescript nature or is it specifically able to save the lives of commoners while it’s only administered to the privileged as a form of non-essential rejuvenation?

Is that administrator merely holding back medicine or directly responsible for sending commoners to their deaths?

Is the administrator only following orders or is he (also) allowed some discretion in how he makes his decisions?

Is he completely powerless in how the medicine is allocated in the hospital or would he actually be able to help? And wouldn’t medical ethics mandate the administrator to do everything in his power to save as many lives as possible?

Is that doctor just a regular employee of the administrator or is he forced to work for him against his will as a slave?

Does the administrator respect that the doctor has a different stance or does he threatened to kill him if he doesn’t comply?

Can that doctor I don’t like be reasonably certain that he can prevent the administrator from dying from the poison?

Can that doctor be reasonably certain that poisoning the administrator will coerce him into saving the lives of the commoners?

Are the doctors motives in trying to coerce the administrator selfish and self-serving or altruistic?

Can it be argued that poisoning the administrator is a form of civil disobedience in the face of an unjust oppressive state?

Is there some immediacy involved? Does coercing the administrator save lives that would otherwise perish in short order?



If some or all circumstances about the situation can be answered with the underlined options, then yes, I would personally say the hypothetical doctor should poison the administrator. There might be more aspects to explore, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind.

 

[Captrek]

Not convinced we won’t ultimately go in circles with this one either, but I’ll try and play.

You say this scenario is similar in broad strokes to “Critical Care”, but I think to answer your question I would need some more information about how it differs …



Is this about some medicine of a nondescript nature or is it specifically able to save the lives of commoners while it’s only administered to the privileged as a form of non-essential rejuvenation?

Is that administrator merely holding back medicine or directly responsible for sending commoners to their deaths?

Is the administrator only following orders or is he (also) allowed some discretion in how he makes his decisions?

Is he completely powerless in how the medicine is allocated in the hospital or would he actually be able to help? And wouldn’t medical ethics mandate the administrator to do everything in his power to save as many lives as possible?

Is that doctor just a regular employee of the administrator or is he forced to work for him against his will as a slave?

Does the administrator respect that the doctor has a different stance or does he threatened to kill him if he doesn’t comply?

Can that doctor I don’t like be reasonably certain that he can prevent the administrator from dying from the poison?

Can that doctor be reasonably certain that poisoning the administrator will coerce him into saving the lives of the commoners?

Are the doctors motives in trying to coerce the administrator selfish and self-serving or altruistic?

Can it be argued that poisoning the administrator is a form of civil disobedience in the face of an unjust oppressive state?

Is there some immediacy involved? Does coercing the administrator save lives that would otherwise perish in short order?



If some or all circumstances about the situation can be answered with the underlined options, then yes, I would personally say the hypothetical doctor should poison the administrator. There might be more aspects to explore, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind.

Let’s see if we can do this flowchart wise.

• Am I kidnapped? No, don’t poison; Yes, hmm…
• Is the administrator guilty of the crimes enumerated by Michael in the quoted post? No, don’t poison; Yes, hmm…
• Can I chicken if the other guy doesn’t? No, don’t poison; Yes, hmm…
• Am I a good person with altruistic motives? No, don’t poison; Yes, hmm…
• Can I get life-saving medicine by doing it? No, don’t poison; Yes, that’s the last test, poison.

I’m sure I didn’t get all that right, go ahead and clarify.