We can certainly judge what the dialogue would've been like.
Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I still want another film or two to properly complete the story of Section 31 becoming something only a select few know about. Starfleet won't send someone to join them just deny they exist, no Control, there's potential for an exciting story about how they go completely off the grid.
You do have to wonder how many layers of cover-ups are involved though. 50 years after operating with some accountability from Starfleet Intelligence and 100 years after parading through ships advertising themselves and even captains haven't heard of them. When a human can live to 140 that's a lot of people who have lived through Section 31's time of not being entirely in the shadows.
Definitely a big story for Rachel Garrett in there, the unremarkable don't get given the Enterprise but she and Harriman are just there basically because we needed someone to sit in the chair for those others letters.
You do have to wonder how many layers of cover-ups are involved though. 50 years after operating with some accountability from Starfleet Intelligence and 100 years after parading through ships advertising themselves and even captains haven't heard of them. When a human can live to 140 that's a lot of people who have lived through Section 31's time of not being entirely in the shadows.
Definitely a big story for Rachel Garrett in there, the unremarkable don't get given the Enterprise but she and Harriman are just there basically because we needed someone to sit in the chair for those others letters.
Don't hold your breath, that other star franchise keeps waffling back and forth between whether the Jedi were a myth that no one knows about to being openly known. Greef Karga and Kuiil in Mandalorian express disbelief at seeing Force powers yet Tatooine moisture farmers show no surprise at Inquisitor abilities in Kenobi and Zorii Bliss recognizes the Sith language as something to be avoided in Rise of Skywalker.
No analysis of the structure of Act II yet, because I'm not home right now, but some thoughts about the characters while I'm killing some time.
All the characters I liked I still like: Georgiou, Alok, Garrett, and Qusai.
I still don't like the Laughing Vulcan with the early-2000s frosted tips. Whenever he opens his mouth, I wish he'd shut up. Fuzz. I just looked up his name.
I could take or leave Zeph and Melle.
All the characters I liked I still like: Georgiou, Alok, Garrett, and Qusai.
I still don't like the Laughing Vulcan with the early-2000s frosted tips. Whenever he opens his mouth, I wish he'd shut up. Fuzz. I just looked up his name.
I could take or leave Zeph and Melle.
Looking at Act II: The Godsend.
Minutes 40-47 would've been Episode 4, from what I can tell. Garrett asks Georgiou how she can know that the weapon they're up against is the Godsend since it's from the Mirror Universe. Georgiou says she knows and wants to interrogate Dada Noe, a.k.a. Metalhead. Garrett still doesn't trust Georgiou, so Alok says he and Georgiou will both conduct the interrogation. After the interrogation, they're sabotaged and stranded on some alien world, Metalhead is burned alive, and they conclude they have a mole in their group. That has To Be Continued written all over it.
Minutes 47-56 would've been Episode 5. Everyone's trying to accuse each other of being the mole and they're super paranoid. The team tries to fix the garbage scow they're on, so it can fly off the planet they're stranded on. This probably would've been one of the slower episodes. Eventually they think Zeph might be the mole. Then they find Zeph dead. To Be Continued.
Minutes 56-63 would've been Episode 6. Georgiou figures out that Zeph's body was being controlled by someone else. The fake-out is that it looks like it's Garrett. Then they figure out that Zeph killed himself. Alok, Quasi, and Georgiou try to figure out who it really was. Georgiou, Alok, and Quasi piece together that it was Fuzz who took control of Zeph's body and planted the evidence on Garrett. A battle breaks out when Fuzz is found out, and he escapes. To Be Continued.
Minutes 63-66 would've been Episode 7. This would be an action-heavy episode. Fuzz versus everyone as he tries to escape. Definitely would've been longer and more elaborate, with tons of twists-and-turns, and special effects, if this had been a full episode. It ends with Georgiou finally catching Fuzz. She deduces that Fuzz keeps tabs on the black market. Fuzz confesses he's working for San. The episode ends with the reveal that San's alive. Then Fuzz is beamed away. As the camera pulls back when Georgiou takes this information in, that's when it would fade to black. If I'm right, this would've been the easiest episode to cut down.
Minutes 66-71 would've been Episode 8. San takes center stage. Fuzz is on San's ship. San finally has the Godsend. Quasi figures out that San wants to detonate the Godsend near contacting plasma storms to bring the Terrans over to the Prime Universe to conquer here and invade the Federation. The Section 31 team have to fix the scow so they can stop San from contacting the Terrans. A lot of the episode probably would've cut back-and-forth between San and the 31 Team. There probably would've been a lot of character scenes on both ends to pad out time, meaning this episode another one that would've been easier to cut down. At the end of the episode, the scow is spaceborne. Georgiou figures out how to turn the tractor beams into a weapon and Garrett says that's actually a good plan.
I think I cracked it! I figured out how the second act could've been split between five episodes, and which ones would've been cut down more than others.
The way I have it rings true to me for another reason. Episodes 7 and 8 would've the point where a lot of people here would've said, "Get on with it!" I can totally see that happening because, between the eight combined seasons of Discovery and Picard, I saw that happen a lot of the time if not all the time.
Minutes 40-47 would've been Episode 4, from what I can tell. Garrett asks Georgiou how she can know that the weapon they're up against is the Godsend since it's from the Mirror Universe. Georgiou says she knows and wants to interrogate Dada Noe, a.k.a. Metalhead. Garrett still doesn't trust Georgiou, so Alok says he and Georgiou will both conduct the interrogation. After the interrogation, they're sabotaged and stranded on some alien world, Metalhead is burned alive, and they conclude they have a mole in their group. That has To Be Continued written all over it.
Minutes 47-56 would've been Episode 5. Everyone's trying to accuse each other of being the mole and they're super paranoid. The team tries to fix the garbage scow they're on, so it can fly off the planet they're stranded on. This probably would've been one of the slower episodes. Eventually they think Zeph might be the mole. Then they find Zeph dead. To Be Continued.
Minutes 56-63 would've been Episode 6. Georgiou figures out that Zeph's body was being controlled by someone else. The fake-out is that it looks like it's Garrett. Then they figure out that Zeph killed himself. Alok, Quasi, and Georgiou try to figure out who it really was. Georgiou, Alok, and Quasi piece together that it was Fuzz who took control of Zeph's body and planted the evidence on Garrett. A battle breaks out when Fuzz is found out, and he escapes. To Be Continued.
Minutes 63-66 would've been Episode 7. This would be an action-heavy episode. Fuzz versus everyone as he tries to escape. Definitely would've been longer and more elaborate, with tons of twists-and-turns, and special effects, if this had been a full episode. It ends with Georgiou finally catching Fuzz. She deduces that Fuzz keeps tabs on the black market. Fuzz confesses he's working for San. The episode ends with the reveal that San's alive. Then Fuzz is beamed away. As the camera pulls back when Georgiou takes this information in, that's when it would fade to black. If I'm right, this would've been the easiest episode to cut down.
Minutes 66-71 would've been Episode 8. San takes center stage. Fuzz is on San's ship. San finally has the Godsend. Quasi figures out that San wants to detonate the Godsend near contacting plasma storms to bring the Terrans over to the Prime Universe to conquer here and invade the Federation. The Section 31 team have to fix the scow so they can stop San from contacting the Terrans. A lot of the episode probably would've cut back-and-forth between San and the 31 Team. There probably would've been a lot of character scenes on both ends to pad out time, meaning this episode another one that would've been easier to cut down. At the end of the episode, the scow is spaceborne. Georgiou figures out how to turn the tractor beams into a weapon and Garrett says that's actually a good plan.
I think I cracked it! I figured out how the second act could've been split between five episodes, and which ones would've been cut down more than others.
The way I have it rings true to me for another reason. Episodes 7 and 8 would've the point where a lot of people here would've said, "Get on with it!" I can totally see that happening because, between the eight combined seasons of Discovery and Picard, I saw that happen a lot of the time if not all the time.
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No offense, but I think you are taking the “We turned the ten-episode season into a one-and-a-half hour movie” thing a little too literally. Maybe I’m misremembering what was said about this, but I think there‘s no reason not to assume there wouldn‘t have been side adventures, detours or just a whole second adventure after the first arc if this were an entire season. The way you‘re splitting up these plot points into entire episodes makes it feel like individual episodes would have been slow as molasses.
I'm thinking there would've been subplots and detours intermixed with these ideas. The main plot would be the A-story, and then what I described above would be the B-story. Or vice versa. Depending on the episode.
EDITED TO ADD: I took all subplots and detours into account in Post #2,158 on the previous page, when I said:
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I'm aware that I would surely asphyxiate but the heart will want what it will want and should hope run out I have an indomitable ability to headcanon to fall back on.
To be fair, given how the current era has two out of three live action series be fully seasonal arc driven shows (and PRODIGY and LDS basically are too, but at least they did them well and had side quests), it's almost a given that a Section 31 series would have been a fully arc driven show. And given how badly virtually every arc driven season of the live action shows of this era has been, I wouldn't be surprised if it would have been just as slow as what he has described.
Wrapping this up now, so I can cross "Give Section 31 another chance" off the Checklist of things I wanted to get to while I'm in-between seasons of my '90s Trek Re-Watch.
What I have as Episode 7, the action-heavy episode, I think large portions of it, if not the vast majority of it, would've been Michelle Yeoh showing off her martial arts. There would've been extended sequences of it. If you've seen any of her more action-oriented movies where she plays one of the main characters, you know what I'm talking about. Star Trek or not, Section 31 or not, I think those would've been fun to see. Though I suspect people who generally hate New Trek would've despised it.
With Episode 8, I think we would've gotten San's side of the Georgiou/San Origin Story, just like we got Georgiou's side in Act I. If this had happened, it would've been similar to when Tarka had his Origin Story shown during one of the later episodes of Discovery Season 4. Episode 10, "The Galactic Barrier". Since DSC S4 was a 13-episode season, it would've been at the same point as here for S31.
Continuing on to Act III: The Passageway.
Minutes 71-84 would've been Episode 9. It starts off with a ship-to-ship battle between San's ship and the scow that the 31 Team are using. Then it continues with a split-focus between 1) San's ship with hand-to-hand combat with one fight between Georgiou and San and the other fight being between Alok and Fuzz, and 2) The 31 Team's scow they're using with Qusai on the bridge and Garrett in the guts of the ship, trying to give them more of a fighting chance. At the end, Qusai figures out how to keep the ship from blowing up.
Alok kills Fuzz, who tells Alok the plan to open the Passageway is on autopilot.
Georgiou defeats San, and they reconcile right as San is about to die. Deep, emotional scene. Then the Passageway opens. Definitely leads into what would've been the Season Finale.
Minutes 84-96 would've been Episode 10. Georgiou and Alok think they're about to die, as San's ship is about to blow up before the Passageway opens. Georgiou asks Alok about his regrets, so I think earlier in the season we would've seen flashbacks to Alok's life during the Eugenics Wars. Then they're rescued by Qusai and Garrett right in the nick of time. Everyone celebrates their victory.
Then it cuts to...
Final Transmission: Three of Your Earth Weeks Later
This fits with other seasons of New Trek where the main conflict is resolved earlier on in the final episode, and then we see everyone lands after the dust has settled.
They're a permanent unit now. Georgiou, Alok, Garrett, Qusai, and Not-Fuzz (who shows up out of nowhere). Garrett's been promoted to Lieutenant Commander. Then they're boss appears virtually to tell them what their next assignment is. If this had been an ongoing series, she definitely wouldn't have been played by Jamie Lee Curtis. She's sending them to Turkana IV. That's probably been somewhere we've seen in Star Trek before, I can't remember off-hand, and it might or might not have seen in a hypothetical Season 2. And that's it. Roll credits.
So, yeah. I've got that crossed off the Checklist. Next time I re-watch this, whenever that is, I'll be looking at it from a character angle.
In the meantime, I'll be doing what I said I'd do elsewhere. Next up on my list is re-watching and posting my thoughts about For All Mankind (officially my new favorite sci-fi show) in the SF&F Forum in the thread they have going. It's a show I'm hooked on and can't wait to watch again. Starting this upcoming week. I'm going to go through the entire series, before going back to DS9 and VOY. So, I'll be taking a bit of a break from Trek.
Before all of that, the very next thing I'm watching today (or tonight) is The Stepford Wives. The 1975 version, not the 2004 version. I've never seen it before (and won't be posting about it here), but I'm looking forward to it!
Just Remember: Everything I posted about how I think Section 31 would've -- might've -- been split up had it been in actual season is only how I think it could've gone. I'm NOT saying that I'm 100% certain this is how it would've gone. I'm also not saying there wouldn't have been additional subplots, detours, etc. This has just been a fun thought exercise. At least for me. Have to make sure all the bases are covered!
EDITED TO ADD: Here's a Michelle Yeoh Watch/Re-Watch Thread that I've been doing on the side and have had going on for the past several months, where I've looked at a mix of Key Georgiou DSC Episodes, key S31 episodes from DS9, and several of Michelle Yeoh's films, working my way from 1985 to the Present. Some of her films I'd seen before, a lot of them I hadn't.
What I have as Episode 7, the action-heavy episode, I think large portions of it, if not the vast majority of it, would've been Michelle Yeoh showing off her martial arts. There would've been extended sequences of it. If you've seen any of her more action-oriented movies where she plays one of the main characters, you know what I'm talking about. Star Trek or not, Section 31 or not, I think those would've been fun to see. Though I suspect people who generally hate New Trek would've despised it.
With Episode 8, I think we would've gotten San's side of the Georgiou/San Origin Story, just like we got Georgiou's side in Act I. If this had happened, it would've been similar to when Tarka had his Origin Story shown during one of the later episodes of Discovery Season 4. Episode 10, "The Galactic Barrier". Since DSC S4 was a 13-episode season, it would've been at the same point as here for S31.
Continuing on to Act III: The Passageway.
Minutes 71-84 would've been Episode 9. It starts off with a ship-to-ship battle between San's ship and the scow that the 31 Team are using. Then it continues with a split-focus between 1) San's ship with hand-to-hand combat with one fight between Georgiou and San and the other fight being between Alok and Fuzz, and 2) The 31 Team's scow they're using with Qusai on the bridge and Garrett in the guts of the ship, trying to give them more of a fighting chance. At the end, Qusai figures out how to keep the ship from blowing up.
Alok kills Fuzz, who tells Alok the plan to open the Passageway is on autopilot.
Georgiou defeats San, and they reconcile right as San is about to die. Deep, emotional scene. Then the Passageway opens. Definitely leads into what would've been the Season Finale.
Minutes 84-96 would've been Episode 10. Georgiou and Alok think they're about to die, as San's ship is about to blow up before the Passageway opens. Georgiou asks Alok about his regrets, so I think earlier in the season we would've seen flashbacks to Alok's life during the Eugenics Wars. Then they're rescued by Qusai and Garrett right in the nick of time. Everyone celebrates their victory.
Then it cuts to...
Final Transmission: Three of Your Earth Weeks Later
This fits with other seasons of New Trek where the main conflict is resolved earlier on in the final episode, and then we see everyone lands after the dust has settled.
They're a permanent unit now. Georgiou, Alok, Garrett, Qusai, and Not-Fuzz (who shows up out of nowhere). Garrett's been promoted to Lieutenant Commander. Then they're boss appears virtually to tell them what their next assignment is. If this had been an ongoing series, she definitely wouldn't have been played by Jamie Lee Curtis. She's sending them to Turkana IV. That's probably been somewhere we've seen in Star Trek before, I can't remember off-hand, and it might or might not have seen in a hypothetical Season 2. And that's it. Roll credits.
So, yeah. I've got that crossed off the Checklist. Next time I re-watch this, whenever that is, I'll be looking at it from a character angle.
In the meantime, I'll be doing what I said I'd do elsewhere. Next up on my list is re-watching and posting my thoughts about For All Mankind (officially my new favorite sci-fi show) in the SF&F Forum in the thread they have going. It's a show I'm hooked on and can't wait to watch again. Starting this upcoming week. I'm going to go through the entire series, before going back to DS9 and VOY. So, I'll be taking a bit of a break from Trek.
Before all of that, the very next thing I'm watching today (or tonight) is The Stepford Wives. The 1975 version, not the 2004 version. I've never seen it before (and won't be posting about it here), but I'm looking forward to it!
Just Remember: Everything I posted about how I think Section 31 would've -- might've -- been split up had it been in actual season is only how I think it could've gone. I'm NOT saying that I'm 100% certain this is how it would've gone. I'm also not saying there wouldn't have been additional subplots, detours, etc. This has just been a fun thought exercise. At least for me. Have to make sure all the bases are covered!
EDITED TO ADD: Here's a Michelle Yeoh Watch/Re-Watch Thread that I've been doing on the side and have had going on for the past several months, where I've looked at a mix of Key Georgiou DSC Episodes, key S31 episodes from DS9, and several of Michelle Yeoh's films, working my way from 1985 to the Present. Some of her films I'd seen before, a lot of them I hadn't.
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Just say Star Wars.
I've finally landed on how I'm going to re-rate the S31 TV Movie. I give it a 5 out of 10. It's half-baked, literally.
Now that I'm over the initial shock from January, I can appreciate it more on its own terms. I like it as a guilty pleasure, generic sci-fi action movie that happens to star Michelle Yeoh... BUT that doesn't change the fact that this could've been so much more and would've been under better hands.
Strangely, I'm more likely to re-watch this again in the future than I am the Kelvin Films because, at the end of the day, I'm a Discovery fan and a Michelle Yeoh fan, whereas I'm not a fan of the Kelvin Films and don't follow any of those actors. It is what it is and I am what I am.
I still think the Lost Era was the perfect time period to place this. It's where I thought early-DSC should've taken place. 30 years after the last TOS Movie and 40 years before TNG, it's as far away from TOS and TNG as you can get, without having to create an entirely new time period, and it doesn't have to deal with anything going on with either of them. The perfect middle ground that no one's done much with.
Now that I'm over the initial shock from January, I can appreciate it more on its own terms. I like it as a guilty pleasure, generic sci-fi action movie that happens to star Michelle Yeoh... BUT that doesn't change the fact that this could've been so much more and would've been under better hands.
Strangely, I'm more likely to re-watch this again in the future than I am the Kelvin Films because, at the end of the day, I'm a Discovery fan and a Michelle Yeoh fan, whereas I'm not a fan of the Kelvin Films and don't follow any of those actors. It is what it is and I am what I am.
I still think the Lost Era was the perfect time period to place this. It's where I thought early-DSC should've taken place. 30 years after the last TOS Movie and 40 years before TNG, it's as far away from TOS and TNG as you can get, without having to create an entirely new time period, and it doesn't have to deal with anything going on with either of them. The perfect middle ground that no one's done much with.
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It really would've been nice if Discovery had started in 2317, 50 years after the start of TOS both in-universe and out of it.
