That Starbase 11 wall chart - noe in slide form

[BK613]

It seems clear to me that the idea was to show five older ships with very high 16XX registries, and five newer ships with very low 17XX registries, to imply that there was a recent shift in the Starship Class lineage from the previous class to the Constitution class. So unlike what Jein did, the 17XX ships should all be Constitutions, and the 16XX ships should all be another older class, but the same class. And no 18XX ships, because something even newer than the Constitution class shouldn’t exist yet.

Which would consistent with Jefferies' numbering scheme, which I assume would be in play here, considering that this is the first episode production-wise to introduce other Starship numbers. Kirk serving on the older 13xx design years ago fits as well.

Unfortunately, there is then the possibility that the Intrepid NCC-1631 is not a Constitution class, if we link Stone’s dialogue to the ship that’s almost complete.

It's always made more sense to me to pull a work crew off of a ship with weeks and weeks of work still to go—easier to absorb the delay—than pull a work crew off of one that is undergoing that last minute scramble to get the ship out of the yard. So i would go with 1703 or 1709 for Intrepid.

If we assume that the 17xx numbers are like the Enterprise and the high number at SB11 is 1718 then in Season 2 "Metamorphosis" it would imply that there have been losses as Kirk says there are twelve like the Enterprise...

Season 1 episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday." 1718 could be under construction rather than under repair and not in the fleet yet.

I thought that was in "The Trouble with Tribbles" where Scotty is viewing a "technical manual" and the monitor hood obscured "Constitution", "Star Ship" and "Primary Phaser"?

My understanding is the graphic was produced for 'Space Seed' but not used in that episode and later repurposed for 'The Trouble with Tribbles'.

 

[DSG2k]

I personally would not insinuate anything from SNW into this chart, as that was clearly not the intention.

Concur. Indeed, that Sombra thing means that every visually identical ship could be a different class, which is just messy.

Moreover, while Jefferies et al. had the idea of classes limited to 100 examples numbered sequentially, we don't know if that idea was in play during the making of this chart. All we do know is that Jein's unfortunate assessment of this chart showing only Constitution Class ships has been retconned onto the chart by Okuda, and this (in concert with all the other non-sequential class registries, not to mention Constellation 1017) would tend to supercede the Jefferies idea.

As far as NCC-1700, it is shown as an unnamed vessel on this chart and as a Constitution Class heavy cruiser on diagrams in the TOS films and as a Constitution even in TNG. Folks assign it the name USS Constitution per Jein, thus presumably lead ship of the Constitution Class, but this creates problems explaining the NCC-16XX Constitutions, not to mention Constellation 1017 and possibly Eagle 956. If you go with Constitution 1700, it seems easier to me that it be a second Constitution Class to bear the name.

One nice potential detail about the possibility of the numbers on the chart not being what we thought is that there's a chance of escaping the Jein-Okuda retcon for at least a couple of the ships. Given the low count of Constitutions and their supposed importance, it has never made sense to have the whole lot in one place like this and all simultaneously under repair or retrofit.

 

[Dukhat]

It's always made more sense to me to pull a work crew off of a ship with weeks and weeks of work still to go—easier to absorb the delay—than pull a work crew off of one that is undergoing that last minute scramble to get the ship out of the yard. So i would go with 1703 or 1709 for Intrepid.

My mistake: I was equating the NCC-1631 ship with Jein’s extrapolation for T-Negative, which was used in TOS-R for the Intrepid.

 

[Yaroze86]

I thought TOS-R used the 1631 registry?

 

[Dukhat]

I thought TOS-R used the 1631 registry?

They did. I mistyped.

 

[DSG2k]

I thought TOS-R used the 1631 registry?

Much to the apparent chagrin of some MA editor:

NCC-1831

NCC-1831 was the registry number of a Federation starship which underwent a layover at Starbase 11 in 2267. The ship's number was seen on a chart indicating the repair status of several vessels. (TOS: "Court Martial") This ship was only identified by its hull number, and only when the remastered...

memory-alpha.fandom.com

 

[BK613]

My mistake: I was equating the NCC-1631 ship with Jein’s extrapolation for T-Negative, which was used in TOS-R for the Intrepid.

I understood that and I'm not sure of your 'mistake' as I wasn't offering up a correction. Some posters here have in the past have also used the fact that Stone's gaze lingers on that area of the chart as proof of 1631=Intrepid as well. Which is why I picked the two 17xx above and below and solely to answer your mentioned conundrum about its class.

And for those that have not read Jein's article in T-Negative, Trekplace still has it up as of the date of this post:

www.trekplace.com

 

[DSG2k]

And for those that have not read Jein's article in T-Negative, Trekplace still has it up as of the date of this post:

www.trekplace.com

Hilarious that we are, literally 50 years later, trying to repeat his film frame enlargement work. I had also never gone back before now to compare his reading of the numbers with mine from the deskew . . . it's identical.

 

[Yaroze86]

Hilarious that we are, literally 50 years later, trying to repeat his film frame enlargement work. I had also never gone back before now to compare his reading of the numbers with mine from the deskew . . . it's identical.

Really, it's the most logical. I am asking around local about scanning my film strip. Hopefully have an answer shortly or will get it to HK.

 

[Henoch]

I'm still mystified on the presentation order of the list of ships; it is not ordered by ship identifier number nor by %Complete, so, is it alphabetical or something else like location/sector/etc.?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Dock number/position, perhaps.

 

[Henoch]

Here's my interpretation of the chart which I presented in previous threads:

Starbase 11's chart in Court Martial where “% Complete” may status a ship's completion into a 2-1/2 year planned maintenance cycle or about 2500 stardates from launch, i.e. midpoint of a 5YM. In Court Martial, stardate ~2950, there are only 10 ships of the Starship Class in Starfleet service as shown on the chart. At that time, the Intrepid can be the ship at 100% Complete and at Starbase 11 for her planned maintenance (status with green bar). Note the chart shows NCC-1701 (Enterprise) at ~83% Complete into her cycle or about 2 years after launch (if the Enterprise was launched for its 5YM around stardate 1000). Just a little later, two more Starships must have came into service bringing the total up to 12 ships per Kirk in Tomorrow is Yesterday, stardate ~3100.

This interpretation falls in the "small Starfleet" theme. I also acknowledge that a "larger Starfleet" theme supports that the list of ships on the chart are showing the ten Starships currently stationed to Starbase 11 control, where five of the active twelve 1700 class ships are stationed there. YMMV .

 

[BK613]

Jein went with reverse-alphabetical, reasoning that some cultures might read bottom-to-top.
I'm of the opinion that the newest arrivals are listed at the bottom, which explains the Enterprise being so low on the list.
And I'm figuring that the meeting with Stone occurs some time after her arrival—Kirk's first priority is to get repairs underway—which allows three other ships to arrive after the Enterprise does.

edit to add: For me and my headcanon, that green bar represents training and qualification time on any and all changes to the associated ship. Something that occurs in the real world after a ship has been in the yards.

 

[blssdwlf]

That makes sense if the list is in arrival order.

 

[Henoch]

And I'm figuring that the meeting with Stone occurs some time after her arrival—Kirk's first priority is to get repairs underway—which allows three other ships to arrive after the Enterprise does.

Spock does drag his feet in getting the log records over to Stone's office.

 

[BK613]

Spock does drag his feet in getting the log records over to Stone's office.

It's more than just that. Enough time has passed that next-of-kin has been notified and the friends in the bar have found out. Plus the chart shows Enterprise at more than 80% complete.
So Kirk meets Stone to sign the deposition sometime after the Enterprise has arrived and maybe at the end of the starbase's work day.
I'm figuring that the deposition meeting is a routine formality that is rarely an issue. The CO signs the statement and the log for the most part backs the statement up. It's the kind of thing you'd schedule to happen and not an immediate urgency.
(apologies on the belated response)

 

[ChallengerHK]

Really, it's the most logical. I am asking around local about scanning my film strip. Hopefully have an answer shortly or will get it to HK.

I did a quick check for a drum scanner near you and found nothing. As I mentioned in our offline, drum scanning will get a superior result to what I can do, but there aren't too many places that have them (last I looked, they were $20-30k machines). I didn't find anything near you; I did have a bunch of places tell me "No we don't have one, but what we have is just as good," which is untrue.

I have used Dodge Chrome. They used to have 3 locations around DC. I think they're down to one now, and I'm not certain if they still have their drum scanner. When I used them, their results were outstanding.

 

[Yaroze86]

I might send it out to you tomorrow or later thisweek. I'll be out of town next week. Worst case I'll try one place sorta local and see what there results look like as well.

 

[ChallengerHK]

I might send it out to you tomorrow or later thisweek. I'll be out of town next week. Worst case I'll try one place sorta local and see what there results look like as well.

It can't really hurt, with the caveats that 1) they don't charge a lot, and 2) they have real, trained lab personnel. Don't go to a Walgreens or anything like that.

 

[Yaroze86]

This about only place that has anything remotely close to maybe what you could do if I had to guess. Recommend?

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