The more I rewatch it, the more I’m almost sure that’s the set-up. And the secret comes out when Clark’s responses get more and more personal and impassioned: “People were going to die!”
DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Superman Returns was designed to be a sequel of sorts to the original movies, which is why the music worked there.
A point you completely missed.
Gunn's Superman is in its own universe, no connected to any other adaptation, so it is desperate to use music specifically composed for another production. As noted earlier, Bob Harris & Paul Francis Webster's theme to the 1967-70 Spider-Man animated series is undoubtedly one of the most memorable, character-associated themes ever composed, yet it was not shamelessly used as the main title / character theme for Raimi or Webb's Spider-Man films. Neal Hefti's "Batman Theme" composed for the main and end credits of the 1966-68 TV series is another piece of music that was just as known (globally), popular & identified with the character, but again, Elfman (through Burton) was not going to use any of the Hefti (or Nelson Riddle) music for the 1989 Batman movie, since (once again) the movies did not feel one production's music was the default for all other, unrelated adaptations, as each is supposed to be its own creation with its own identity.
Raimi's Spider-Man and Burton's Batman, despite each using existing IPs, were--by rational necessity--creating their own, lone superhero story / universe, not trying to draw the aura and identity from interpretations of others and their unrelated work. Audiences understood and accepted that for both productions.
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I’m really struggling to make sense of this. Superman using music that is almost instantly recognizable as Superman music.
Seems pretty smart to not mess with something that was never broken.
Might as well use the 50’s music then, or Lois and Clark. I’ve always liked that one the most. Superman Doomsday also has a good theme.
I’m not saying they should go the Marvel route where every movie has its own theme. I’m just saying that this new Superman should have his own unique theme which could be then used for future projects down the line.
I’m not saying they should go the Marvel route where every movie has its own theme. I’m just saying that this new Superman should have his own unique theme which could be then used for future projects down the line.
Williams is one of the goats, a name and sound that almost anyone recognizes. If one is taking a new crack at a property, using his music as a baseline is almost an automatic win.
It is a play on the public’s nostalgia, a play that I would’ve likely made if I were in Gunn’s seat.
I’m sure there will be new music. I’m just talking about his theme. It’s just a variation of the ‘78 one.
Except the way they used it didn't work for me, because they didn't do anything new with it but just started playing what was essentially a stock arrangement of it every time a Superman action scene started, which was incredibly clumsy. I mean, every Superman film after the first one had a different composer arranging Williams's themes -- Ken Thorne in II & III and Alexander Courage in IV -- but they incorporated them much more smoothly and did more novel things with them than John Ottman did.
I agree, Jay Gruska's Lois and Clark theme is a particular favorite, and Robert J. Kral's Doomsday theme was impressive too (he's reused it in some later animated productions).
The difference with the MCU is that it's the same interpretation of the character in the same continuity having multiple themes, which annoys me in the same way that multiple different interpretations/continuities of Superman using the same theme annoys me. I feel that if it's the same incarnation of the character, I prefer them to have a consistent theme, and if it's a new version, I like it if they have their own theme to distinguish them from earlier versions.
This is a separate universe from the one the #900 comic took place in, so they probably aren't going to following what that established. Legally I'm pretty sure Superman and Clark Kent would be the same person, so if Clark is a US citizen Superman would be too. And even if he's considered a different individual, he would have been in the same situation that Clark was, so he'd still be a US citizen. I haven't read the Superman comics from that era, but from what I'd read about them, I was under the impression that he gave up his US citizenship, not that he never was one.
Do we know that they're actually using the old theme in the final movie? Lots of trailer use temporary music that never appears in the final movie.
Fortunately, there's none of that here.
I’m really struggling to make sense of this. Superman using music that is almost instantly recognizable as Superman music.
Seems pretty smart to not mess with something that was never broken.
Exactly. Walk up to any person on the street and ask them to hum Superman's theme song. I guarantee you they're not going to hum the theme from 'Lois and Clark' or 'Superman and Lois'; it's going to be John Williams.
You can say the say the same thing about Batman. It's either going to be Adam West or Danny Elfman's theme.
You can say the say the same thing about Batman. It's either going to be Adam West or Danny Elfman's theme.
If they are smart they will go with the Elfman theme. Don't mess with perfection.
So popularity is the only standard of worth? Bullshit. If good music is underappreciated, that's a reason to promote it, not denigrate it. That's why I make a point of naming the composers of other great Superman themes every time this comes up -- because I respect their work and I want to celebrate it, not erase and devalue it. Some of us would rather side with the underdogs.
I'm quite certain that John Williams would not support using his name to dismiss the value of other composers' work. His own Superman theme was a tribute to the composers who came before him, Sammy Timberg and Leon Klatzkin. He paid tribute to them, not merely by copying what they did, but by creating something that reflected and evoked their creations while still being his own. And that's the same thing that later Superman composers have done with regard to his work -- used it as inspiration for their own creativity, which is a far greater tribute than mere imitation.
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Personally, I compare the John Williams Superman theme to the Godzilla theme by Akira Ifukube. It's not strictly necessary for a good installment of the franchise, but it is certainly nice to have.
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