• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Thunderbolts* grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Thunderbolts*?


  • Total voters
    39
Well that was a whole heap of fun! Loved it!

I got a bit annoyed at how many times they pulled the "They're not going to come back are they?" "Hey they came back!" gag, and the film maybe needed to have a bit longer to show Valentina crafting Bob into Sentry, it seemed like that all happened in a few hours, but these are minor gripes.

I got a definite Nuclear Man vibe from Sentry's outfit (only he was way better than Nuclear Man) but also more than a whiff of Homelander.

Love Yelena (Florence Pugh can do no wrong!) love Bucky, adore the Red Guardian and even Walker and Ghost were great.

When Yelena was going on about all the terrible things she'd done I half expected a line about red in her ledger.

The New Avengers (and Bob) will return, and I for one can't wait!
 
Bucky probably has a lot of shame rooms that look like this...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Ava's shame room probably looks a lot like this...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Couple of other thoughts.

It was cool that Pugh actually jumped off the building but also completely pointless as it appeared in the film. To risk your star like that is just nuts when you could so easily fake it, you wouldn't even need CGI just the kind of in camera trickery the likes of Harold Lloyd were doing a century ago.

It's a very weird super team (obviously) even on a practical level given three of them effectively have the same super power (loved Alexi asking Bucky what version of the super solider serum he got) one of them isn't super powered at all and one of them is incredibly powerful but can't ever use those powers! :lol:

Do like that they lampshaded this when Yelena said "So we all just punch/shoot things?"

It shouldn't work but it does.
 
Just came back from seeing the film for the second time and I have to say I love it even more now.

The depression theme hit me harder this time around, especially when Yelena and Bob talked about his mental health in the third act. That's what makes this film so good. It took relatable issues that ordinary people deal with and feel shame about and demonstrated that heroes deal with those same issues in a believable manner. I greatly appreciate how the film handled mental health in a positive manner and helped destigmatize the shame around the those issues. The introspection is still is only a little more than surface deep but what the film does explore felt right.

How Yelena's journey paralleled Bob's journey stood out even more this time around. Going from her complete sense of emptiness to meeting and slowly befriending her fellow teammates who brought her a little bit of light (as directly noted by Alexei during the limo scene) to her heartbreaking conversation with Alexei how her grief and trauma and regrets aren't what define her. And then she turned and used those lessons to help Bob out of his own Void.

But best of all, I still love how hugging it out was the way the team won the day and not the Marvel standard of punching out your issues (looking at you, Tony...and Bucky...and Bruce...and...). The team came together and showed Bob that he is cared for and the best way to show that was a group hug (and John was the second person to join it!). I think that's perfect. And not just because how that moment recontextualized one of the posters.

Another thing that stood out to me in my second viewing was how Bucky utilized his past skills as an assassin in his job as a congressman. He quickly zeroed in how Mel was on the fence as you can see him picking up on her body language during the hearing. While he was a bit clumsy in the socializing aspect (which is its own irony), he was able to bring her in as an asset, aided the fact that Mel quickly realized how over her head she was. I liked how he used those skills the best he could to handle Val the proper way with due process before the situation developed into something beyond Washington's capabilities.

I hope haven't seen the last of Geraldine Viswanathan's Mel (regardless of whether or not she's Songbird, a character who I have no familiarity with). I've been a big fan of Viswanathan's for years and I loved every moment she stole in this film. She managed to hold her own against some pretty big heavyweights and I can only hope that's a good sign of her return (with or without Val).

And before I forget again, I have to say that I really loved the Void's effect of disappearing people. It was simple yet terrifying. A part of me wished it had been a permanent result but that would've been too dark for Marvel. Once the little girl was nullified (right after Alexei saved her, fuck!), I knew it wasn't going to hold. They had to walk that back and they were quick to do so once they left the Voidspace (I'm sticking to that umbrella term for the entire plane that held the shame rooms).

...and the film maybe needed to have a bit longer to show Valentina crafting Bob into Sentry, it seemed like that all happened in a few hours...
The fact that her crafting Bob into Sentry was a rush job is part of the point, along with the awful costume and hair job. Val was super desperate to make him her model superhero and she only had a limited amount of time to do it. She had the blueprints to make it happen but there was only so much time she had to pull it off with the impending impeachment hearing. She already called the press conference for later in the day and she had to present something fast.
 
The fact that her crafting Bob into Sentry was a rush job is part of the point, along with the awful costume and hair job. Val was super desperate to make him her model superhero and she only had a limited amount of time to do it. She had the blueprints to make it happen but there was only so much time she had to pull it off with the impending impeachment hearing. She already called the press conference for later in the day and she had to present something fast.
Fair point
 
I am finding it amusing that Brave New World was knocked on for how Sam calmed down Ross by appealing to how he wanted to be a better person, something REPEATEDLY made clear in the movie, but when the Thunderbolts did it here to get Bob to accept love and friendship which neutralized the Void, it's "a revelation".
 
I am finding it amusing that Brave New World was knocked on for how Sam calmed down Ross by appealing to how he wanted to be a better person, something REPEATEDLY made clear in the movie, but when the Thunderbolts did it here to get Bob to accept love and friendship which neutralized the Void, it's "a revelation".
It's a matter of execution and proper built up of themes. One did it sloppily (partially due to the rewrites and reshoots), the other did with more care.
 
It's a matter of execution and proper built up of themes. One did it sloppily (partially due to the rewrites and reshoots), the other did with more care.
But BNW did build it up, we knew Sam was a Counselor who helped folks with emotional issues and we got a good character analysis of Ross throughout the movie.

It's like people forget that the way to stop a being like the Hulk, any Hulk, is by appealing to the Humanity in them and NOT respond with violence.
 
I am finding it amusing that Brave New World was knocked on for how Sam calmed down Ross by appealing to how he wanted to be a better person, something REPEATEDLY made clear in the movie, but when the Thunderbolts did it here to get Bob to accept love and friendship which neutralized the Void, it's "a revelation".
Well, you see, one appeals to the emotional vulnerability of a person while the other appeals to the emotional vulnerability of a person.


I trust you to see the difference.
 
I am finding it amusing that Brave New World was knocked on for how Sam calmed down Ross by appealing to how he wanted to be a better person, something REPEATEDLY made clear in the movie, but when the Thunderbolts did it here to get Bob to accept love and friendship which neutralized the Void, it's "a revelation".
It's a matter of execution and proper built up of themes. One did it sloppily (partially due to the rewrites and reshoots), the other did with more care.
Another thing to consider, here it helped establish the team, giving them all a shared bonding moment which cements their unity. Meanwhile the scene in BNW is impossible to look at, especially after seeing the whole movie, and not say "THIS is the scene Betty should have been in!" Which, I dunno, re-writes and or actor availabilities probably decided things there, but that's what we're left with.
 
Another thing to consider, here it helped establish the team, giving them all a shared bonding moment which cements their unity. Meanwhile the scene in BNW is impossible to look at, especially after seeing the whole movie, and not say "THIS is the scene Betty should have been in!" Which, I dunno, re-writes and or actor availabilities probably decided things there, but that's what we're left with.

It's more that...well, it's Sams movie and not Bettys'. They did it to show he was willing to do something suicidal like try to talk Ross down because he's a Therapist whose schtick is being able to see into a person like that. Something that Steve didn't really ever go for.
 
Maybe what these films need is a "previously on" to bring in a cliffnotes of what is going on. For me, I forgot who Ava was, or why Taskmaster was so important (I didn't even recognize the character).

If only there was some web site made by fans, people like you, who made video content, such as the kind you see on TVs, which used to commonly be called the "tube," where such a refresher could be found... ;)

...

I don't know why anyone thinks the end credits scene could be a spoiler. That spaceship is obviously empty, a distraction to lure away Galactus, and the Four will obviously cross over into the 616 universe when they go to Tahiti for some post-victory relaxation, only to get eaten by a magical dino-snake with interdimensional juices in its stomach. That's why they're so gloopy in all the leaked set pictures of them meeting the New Avengers. Oops, there's the spoilers.

Hey, speaking of which, they put those end credits scenes in the wrong order, right? The important one goes in the middle, and the gag one goes at the end! Boy, will they be embarrassed when they realize that! :p

...

So... is no one going to ask how a limo with a max speed of 55mph travels from DC to Utah (?) overnight? Does Alexei have a buddy with a cargo plane he can borrow at a moment's notice? Or did he get an assist from Wong?!
 
If only there was some web site made by fans, people like you, who made video content, such as the kind you see on TVs, which used to commonly be called the "tube," where such a refresher could be found... ;)

This feels like the kind of homework Fiege was talking about. ;)

Interestingly i watched a lot of Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Yelena clips after I saw the movie. Haven't seen Brave New World yet.
 
None of that felt like homework for me.

But, with the exception of The Dark World and Secret Invasion, I have no issue with rewatching any and all content to refresh my memory. Which is what I did with this film, although granted I rewatched Falcon and the Winter Soldier ahead of Brave New World, meaning I only "needed" to do Black Widow, Yelena's scenes in Hawkeye (a bit of a cheat but I didn't quite have enough time for a full rewatch), and Ant-Man and the Wasp.

But then I was the kid in high school who enjoyed homework and asked for it (at least in math class). Yeah, I was that kid.

*dodges paper balls and spit balls*
 
This feels like the kind of homework Fiege was talking about. ;)

Well, but a recap video is 1) free, and 2) a lot shorter than watching all of, say, Hawkeye.

I liked the first episode of Hawkeye, but was so unimpressed with the second I bailed on the rest of the season then and there, so I didn't see Yelena appear in it. Anyhow, reading up on Wiki, it sounds like having seen her bits of that show would make Thunderbolts more confusing, not less. Yelena had a dog? What happened to it? What about her nascent friendship with Kate Bishop? And she wasn't just doing hits for Valentina, a theoretical good guy, but was a contract for Kate's (Fisk-employed) civilian mother, too? So... Yelena was a straight-up villain for a while? But John Walker, the first person in history to receive the Medal of Honor three times, is positioned as the bad apple of the bunch for killing one adversary (and, yes, bit a bit of a jerk)? And Valentina, despite all her attempted murders-by-hire (successful, in Antonia's case), gets to keep her job instead of being arrested by Walker on the spot? (Seems like a bit of a double standard along gender lines, maybe?)
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top