Your Ideas: Star Trek III but no Leonard Nimoy

[somebuddyX]

Hi, just looking for your ideas for if you wondered what a whole plot or just concepts for Star Trek III might have been like if Leonard Nimoy hadn't returned. Kinda a bit of both "what you think would happen" and "what you would like to have happened" in this particular scenario.

 

[Tosk]

You could basically do the exact same movie but with a real bummer of an ending.

 

[BillJ]

Spy thriller with Romulans over the Genesis Device. Kirk and company steal the Enterprise to save Carol and David Marcus.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

They could have gone with the younger actor they cast for Spock and have an adolescent version be the subject of the search.

The entire movie stays the same except that small casting change. It’d work just fine.

 

[BillJ]

The entire movie stays the same except that small casting change. It’d work just fine.

I mostly agree, but I just don’t think the tail end of the movie would’ve had the same emotional hook without Nimoy.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I mostly agree, but I just don’t think the tail end of the movie would’ve had the same emotional hook without Nimoy.

Agreed. The movie itself would be worse for a lack of Nimoy generally.

However, if Nimoy wasn’t going to be playing ball, they had options.

 

[XCV330]

they merge David Marcus with Spock via the Genesis Effect. Part of McCoy also transfers into this strange ghola during the katra router download ceremony thingy.

Merrit Butrick plays "Dock" for a couple of movies until Nimoy comes back. Everyone agrees not to talk about it.

 

[somebuddyX]

My ideas are all just very general and kind of more questions:

• Would they start the film in the same place as TSFS or do another time jump like between TMP and TWOK?
• What happens when the Enterprise got back to Earth? Does it stay a training ship? Is it still getting retired? If it's not, does it get a new captain? Does Kirk try to stay on again? Does one of the other cast get bumped up to captain?
• Do you keep Saavik, David and Carol?
• This one's more if TWOK had ended a little differently, but if there was no "remember" and no final scene on Genesis with the torpedo, how would that affect this Star Trek III? I know Nick Meyer didn't want them but Harve did. And if they were in TWOK and Nimoy hadn't returned, would fans have been okay with that thread being not used?
• What happens to Genesis? Would you see it in the film? Or is it just referenced? Would you still have a Romulan/Klingon plot with someone like Kruge? I think Leonard was the one to suggest Klingons, so maybe we would have got Romulans instead. Would Genesis still blow up and have been made with protomatter?
• If they didn't have stealing the Enterprise as a component, maybe there would be no Spacedock or Excelsior

I wish I could go back and read like old starlog issues or fanzines from like 1983 to see what the fan speculation was.

Spy thriller with Romulans over the Genesis Device. Kirk and company steal the Enterprise to save Carol and David Marcus.

I really like this!

 

[Cyfa]

They could have gone with the younger actor they cast for Spock and have an adolescent version be the subject of the search.

The entire movie stays the same except that small casting change. It’d work just fine.

~ And TVH would be pretty much the same, too.

A couple of years ago, I put together a poster for an alternate TSFS featuring some of my favourite characters, scenes, props etc. I don't have a specific story or anything, but I'd like to see more of Uhura, Valkris, Rand, and the science ship Grissom amongst other things.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

~ And TVH would be pretty much the same, too.

A couple of years ago, I put together a poster for an alternate TSFS featuring some of my favourite characters, scenes, props etc. I don't have a specific story or anything, but I'd like to see more of Uhura, Valkris, Rand, and the science ship Grissom amongst other things.

I remember from the last time! A very impressive poster (if a *tad* overcrowded :-) )

 

[BillJ]

I wish I could go back and read like old starlog issues or fanzines from like 1983 to see what the fan speculation was.

I believe a lot of them are digitally available. You’d have to Google it.

 

[BillJ]

Do you keep Saavik, David and Carol?

I don’t want to bogart the whole thread, so I picked one…

In my idea, Saavik would be the face of Romulan Intelligence. A plant to keep an eye on Kirk because of his known history with Carol and David. She would have a more active role in this version of the story.

 

[Daddy Todd]

I wish I could go back and read like old starlog issues or fanzines from like 1983 to see what the fan speculation was.

One of the articles in one of The Best of Trek volumes that came out after Wrath was titled something like "Spock: Now That They Killed Him, How Do We Get Him Back?"

That sums up what a lot of active Trek fandom was saying at the time. From the moment many fans watched TWoK, they were strategizing how to bring Spock back from the dead. I wasn't -- I wanted Spock to stay dead, because I felt like bringing him back cheapened his sacrifice (still do.)

If it had been me, a Spock-free Star Trek III would have had no threads connecting it to Star Trek II, other than a subplot about Saavik and David (and maybe Carol, but probably not) integrating into the Enterprise crew. While undertaking a completely new adventure. I like the idea of using Romulans, because I was already tired of Klingons.

 

[PCz911]

One of the articles in one of The Best of Trek volumes that came out after Wrath was titled something like "Spock: Now That They Killed Him, How Do We Get Him Back?"

That sums up what a lot of active Trek fandom was saying at the time. From the moment many fans watched TWoK, they were strategizing how to bring Spock back from the dead. I wasn't -- I wanted Spock to stay dead, because I felt like bringing him back cheapened his sacrifice (still do.)

If it had been me, a Spock-free Star Trek III would have had no threads connecting it to Star Trek II, other than a subplot about Saavik and David (and maybe Carol, but probably not) integrating into the Enterprise crew. While undertaking a completely new adventure. I like the idea of using Romulans, because I was already tired of Klingons.

Totally agree.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The whole point, I thought, of bringing in Saavik and David was to give Star Trek a fresh addition of younger people to be with the veterans. Spock being gone, Saavik would take his place and David would figure in there somewhere.

But Nimoy had a change of heart and the series turned left into restoring the status quo by removing Carol by not mentioning her again, killing David and then bringing back Spock. Finally, writing Saavik out kind of off-handedly and then restoring the Enterprise and putting everyone, bizarrely, in the exact places they were in the TV show.

So while Nimoy's decision to come back gave me my favorite movie (TSFS), in the end, it robbed the series of a fresh direction.

I loved the DC Comics series which followed TWOK in 1983. They took it in that direction until the movie adaptation. What would the movie been about? Probably the Enterprise going back in time to save JFK

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Interesting question!

If Nimoy hadn't come back, there would've been no need to do most of the plot of the STIII we got. So Spock wouldn't only be merely dead, he'd really be most sincerely dead. So no McCoy going nutty from Spock's Katra. Spock's "Remember" only amounted to McCoy's line "He isn't really dead, as long as we remember him" at the end of TWOK. No need for Sarek to return and tell Kirk that Spock's Katra is missing. No stealing of the Enterprise to recover Spock's body from Genesis, and consequently, no destruction of the Enterprise. And no need for Kirk and his crew to defy Starfleet orders and become fugitives and refugees on Vulcan. And no reason to kill off David, either.

They could definitely follow up on Genesis somehow, especially if Carol and David Marcus were to play a substantial role in the film. I'd imagine that Genesis could be stable in this reality, as there'd be no need to get rid of it without it having the power to resurrect the dead. So perhaps there could be a plotline that continued the debate over the ethics of Genesis, or they could still have the Klingons or the Romulans try to use it as a weapon.

And without Nimoy directing and Spock staying dead, perhaps they could've gotten Nicholas Meyer to return as writer & director. Meyer coming back increases the chances of Kirstie Alley returning as Saavik, continuing her original characterization. Maybe this time around her dual Vulcan/Romulan heritage could've made it into the final cut.

With no Spock, I think there'd definitely be more investment in the new characters of Saavik and David. David could join Starfleet eventually, to make plotting future movies easier if nothing else. Let's say he becomes a junior science officer to help replace Spock. And I'd imagine they could introduce a few more new characters as well, and give us a more organic transition into a new generation of Star Trek. TWOK already introduced and killed off a nephew for Scotty, but perhaps protégés for McCoy, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov could've been introduced.

I wonder if any follow ups would've been TV movies instead of theatrical releases, though. After all, with Star Trek's most popular character gone, Paramount might've wanted to hedge their bets and keep the costs low. And if the newer cast proved popular enough, we could've gotten a new regular TV series featuring them taking over the Enterprise.

I just hope the new series wouldn't spill over into 1987, though, because I'd hate for Kirstie Alley not to be available to take over for Shelley Long on Cheers.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The whole point, I thought, of bringing in Saavik and David was to give Star Trek a fresh addition of younger people to be with the veterans. Spock being gone, Saavik would take his place and David would figure in there somewhere.

Had Nimoy not decided to come back as early as he did (the wrap party for Star Trek II, IIRC), I wonder if Paramount would have pursued the TV movie route and what they would have looked like. I can't really see Shatner being involved in those, except maybe as a hefty priced cameo. Maybe we get 2-3 TV movies a year from late 1983 to late 1985 (the Perry Mason model) with an occasional one-off spin-off (like the unmade Khan TV movie), and a full original cast (sans Nimoy) reunion movie in the summer of 1986, and maybe a "Next Generation"-esque television series from a producer like Greg Strangis in 1988.

 

[Dukhat]

The whole point, I thought, of bringing in Saavik and David was to give Star Trek a fresh addition of younger people to be with the veterans. Spock being gone, Saavik would take his place and David would figure in there somewhere.

Yep, that’s the answer right there. If Nimoy didn’t come back, we already know what would have happened, because they were planning on making TV movies with Saavik and David as the leads before Nimoy changed his mind.

 

[CoveTom]

Yep, that’s the answer right there. If Nimoy didn’t come back, we already know what would have happened, because they were planning on making TV movies with Saavik and David as the leads before Nimoy changed his mind.

Would have been interesting, for sure. If there had been a successful series of TV movies, and Kirstie Alley had continue to play Saavik, we may have never gotten Rebecca Howe on Cheers.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Would have been interesting, for sure. If there had been a successful series of TV movies, and Kirstie Alley had continue to play Saavik, we may have never gotten Rebecca Howe on Cheers.

The shape of her career certainly would have been very different. In the immediate future, no Masquerade. (I have no memory of watching it back in the day, but I watched an episode on YouTube recently, and I remembered the theme song almost as soon as it started and knew how it went!) Maybe no North & South. The question would be at what point Alley decided that the potential steady paycheck of a television series outweighed the Star Trek television movie series, so she may well have auditioned for Rebecca Howe in 1987 even in this altered history.