I guess the end of "Resolutions" will have to do.
Alternate romantic partners for Julian Bashir (not Jadzia, not Ezri and not Garak)
- Thread starter BohandiAnsoid
- Start date
Both really bad. Yeah, the persistence with Jadzia was worse because it went on long after a reasonably intelligent man would have gotten the hint.
And yet I don't recall any instance of Jadzia telling him his attentions were undesired and he needed to knock it off.
Which isn't to say I wouldn't have personally found it creepy if I'd been in her shoes, but there were a lot of things she seemed amenable to that would have bothered me. Perhaps lifetimes of experience has led to more tolerance for BS.
I'm not sure when it hit the level of "relentless stalking", though? If we're going to try to have a serious discussion of this, perhaps best to avoid hyperbole?
Which isn't to say I wouldn't have personally found it creepy if I'd been in her shoes, but there were a lot of things she seemed amenable to that would have bothered me. Perhaps lifetimes of experience has led to more tolerance for BS.
I'm not sure when it hit the level of "relentless stalking", though? If we're going to try to have a serious discussion of this, perhaps best to avoid hyperbole?
Periodical stalking?
When is he shown to be 'stalking' her at all?Periodical stalking?
The beginning of "Dax".
From the description on Memory Alpha, I'm not seeing it: "During his absence, Jadzia Dax and Julian Bashir are studying the required repair work. When Dax decides to call it a night, Bashir offers to accompany her to her quarters and she politely refuses."
That was one time. And it actually saved her life.
Also, if one popular theory concerning Bashir is correct and he is Autistic, then it is quite possible that he honestly didn't understand that what Jadzia said then was a "no".
I myself wouldn't be sure if I hadn't looked it up on Memory Alpha.
Also Jadzia in "Doctor Bashir I presume" actually denied him doing any "unwelcome advances".
Also, if one popular theory concerning Bashir is correct and he is Autistic, then it is quite possible that he honestly didn't understand that what Jadzia said then was a "no".
I myself wouldn't be sure if I hadn't looked it up on Memory Alpha.
Also Jadzia in "Doctor Bashir I presume" actually denied him doing any "unwelcome advances".
Reading the transcript it does read as Jadzia giving Julian a pretty unambiguous answer and him being kind of a creeper.
It could have been resolved by the simple expedient of Julien seeing the men following her, but alas, that's not how it plays.
DAX: I really should be getting to bed.
BASHIR: May I escort you to your quarters?
DAX: That's not necessary, Julian.
BASHIR: Oh, well, good night then.
(Dax leaves, and the men come out of their hiding place to follow her.)
BASHIR: Not necessary, Julian. But not forbidden, either.
It could have been resolved by the simple expedient of Julien seeing the men following her, but alas, that's not how it plays.
DAX: I really should be getting to bed.
BASHIR: May I escort you to your quarters?
DAX: That's not necessary, Julian.
BASHIR: Oh, well, good night then.
(Dax leaves, and the men come out of their hiding place to follow her.)
BASHIR: Not necessary, Julian. But not forbidden, either.
Unambigous? I yhink it depends to whom. To a normal person, probably Yes. To an autidtis person? Not nessesarily.
It doesn't make it all right, but less Mirę or a misunderstanding than anything else.
And Jadzia not only didn't complain, she outright denied that hecmade any unwanted advances on her. It wasn't even she stayed silent, she outright denied it.
And even with that, he is still better than Quark, or anyone else except maybe (speaking objectively) Worf.
It doesn't make it all right, but less Mirę or a misunderstanding than anything else.
And Jadzia not only didn't complain, she outright denied that hecmade any unwanted advances on her. It wasn't even she stayed silent, she outright denied it.
And even with that, he is still better than Quark, or anyone else except maybe (speaking objectively) Worf.
Last edited:
Ya'll are being very obtuse here. It's clear that in the beginning of "Dax", Bashir crosses a line by ignoring Jadzia's clear refusal of the offer to be escorted to her quarters.
Both in and out of universe, the writers later explain away Bashir's early DS9 behavior by emphasizing that this was a puppydog crush and Jadzia was aware of the situation the whole time, but it still doesn't excuse his behavior. In "Starship Down" she even mentions she was specifically avoiding Bashir because he was "coming on so strong".
Both in and out of universe, the writers later explain away Bashir's early DS9 behavior by emphasizing that this was a puppydog crush and Jadzia was aware of the situation the whole time, but it still doesn't excuse his behavior. In "Starship Down" she even mentions she was specifically avoiding Bashir because he was "coming on so strong".
But was this really that clear?
I rememeber something from my life, similar althought in a far less sensitive situation. It was something like: My mother told me "You may close the doors" and I interpreted itvas that I MAY close the doors and I don't HAVE TO close the doors. Of course, I now know she meant I HAD TO close the doors.
But we went so wildly off subject. I didn't want to discuss Jadzia/Julian this time.
I rememeber something from my life, similar althought in a far less sensitive situation. It was something like: My mother told me "You may close the doors" and I interpreted itvas that I MAY close the doors and I don't HAVE TO close the doors. Of course, I now know she meant I HAD TO close the doors.
But we went so wildly off subject. I didn't want to discuss Jadzia/Julian this time.
Yes. It is that clear. There is no other way to interpret this exchange as it plays out in the episode:
BASHIR: May I escort you to your quarters?
DAX: That's not necessary, Julian.
BASHIR: Oh, well, good night then.
He asks, she says no, he accepts this answer. Then after she leaves, he changes his mind, smirks, and follows her anyways.
BASHIR: May I escort you to your quarters?
DAX: That's not necessary, Julian.
BASHIR: Oh, well, good night then.
He asks, she says no, he accepts this answer. Then after she leaves, he changes his mind, smirks, and follows her anyways.
Then they both annoy me.
I want to do fanart one day of Bashir hooking up with Ezra Dax, if Ezri had been a male host instead of a female.
No, she didn’t, and she wasn't upset. Because before she was Jadzia, she was Tobin, Torias, Joran, and Curzon. Having been a horny young man multiple times herself, she could empathize with Julian. And in any case, she had a sense of humor.
Would it surprise you that Andrew Robinson and Alexander Siddig did a dramatic reading in which similar circumstances occured?
But Bashir wasn't just a horny young man. He was a horny young man who refused to read social cues that Dax wasn't interested. Bashir's supposed autism does not seem to manifest itself anywhere BUT when Dax is politely declining his interest.
Early Bashir, especially in season 1, is portrayed as horny, arrogant, and naïve. He's clearly being a sex pest to Dax in the cold open of "Dax", puts his foot in his mouth to Kira in "Emissary", and is obliviously annoying to O'Brien in "The Storyteller" and "Rivals". By S3 they've ironed out his character a whole bunch and he's lost as lot of those unlikable characteristics, and in the aforementioned "Starship Down" there's a spark between him and Dax even as they try to paper over his unfortunate behavior in the early seasons.
I don't think an autistic reading of Bashir is overall unbelievable, especially given the huge amount of shift the genetic engineering retcon gives his backstory. Post-retcon we learn he was severely developmentally disabled as a child and now he's spouting off numbers like Data or Spock. Putting his early awkwardness in that context makes sense. But his behavior towards Dax in those early episodes is unacceptable even if he's on the spectrum- it's just an unfortunate artifact of what behavior 90s tv writers assumed was "playful" vs "inappropriate".
Similar threads
