Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread

[Reverend]

One thing that's always been a minor peeve for me is how Luke and Ben's looks in ANH became the Jedi Standard in the Prequels (and Sequels). Though I guess it started with Anakin's Force Ghost in ROTJ. Luke is already dressing like a Jedi at the start of ANH. Ben is wandering in the desert in full Jedi regalia. Though that tracks with Ben. This is the guy who thinks using his real name while in hiding is a good idea. And giving a kid the name "Skywalker" and sending him to live on Tatooine is another one. Other characters we see on Tatooine are wearing "Jedi Chic" as well. (Uncle Owen. The Bartender). Though once Luke begins to begin his training he's never in robes again. Instead he wears military looking uniforms. Then the sequels come around and every Jedi looks like they summered on Tatooine as a moisture farmer and had their Coruscant tailor whip up something nice based on their recollections.

Eh. The way I see it, Lucas was keying in on traditional Japanese dress, which for Shogun and peasant alike, (at least in the movies; I can't speak to actual historical wardrobe of the era) that basically means wrap-around robes of one sort or another; the key difference being of course the quality of the material and tailoring. To western eyes it may seem unique and novel, but really it's just how people in that particular time and placed dressed.

If one absolutely MUST have a pedantic reason for why Jedi and Tatooine moisture farmers just so happen to wear similar-ish attire; Jedi are a monastic order that eschews attachments and materialism. So yeah, they tend to wear a style that's been derived from the standard pattern of dress for many species in the galaxy for tens of thousands of years. Why that style? It's simple, easily adaptable to many body-types and anatomies, comfortable and unrestrictive for physical activity. All things that are advantageous to physical labourers and warrior monks alike.
Of course Jedi aren't typically as tatty and unkempt as Ben was in ANH, but then he was hermiting it up in the Jundland wastes.

I mourn the Acolyte's cancellation but celebrate and eagerly await Ahsoka season 2 and I don't care what the internet tells me I should think.

How dare you have an independent thought or subjective opinions! This is the internet; we don't truck with that sort of deviant behaviour here!

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Eh. The way I see it, Lucas was keying in on traditional Japanese dress, which for Shogun and peasant alike (at least in the movies; I can't speak to actual historical wardrobe of the era) that basically means wrap-around robes of one sort or another; the key difference being of course the quality of the material and tailoring. To western eyes seem unique and novel, but really it's just how people that particular time and placed dressed.

If one absolutely MUST have a pedantic reason for why Jedi and Tatooine moisture farmers just so happen to wear similar-ish attire; Jedi are a monastic order that eschews attachments and materialism. So yeah, they tend to wear a style that's been derived from the standard pattern of dress for many species in the galaxy for tens of thousands of years. Why that style? It's simple, easily adaptable to many body-types and anatomies, comfortable and unrestrictive for physical activity. All things that are advantageous to physical labourers and warrior monks alike.
Of course Jedi aren't typically as tatty and unkempt as Ben was in ANH, but then he was hermiting it up in the Jundland wastes.

How dare you have an independent thought or subjective opinions! This is the internet; we don't truck with that sort of deviant behaviour here!

I always noticed that at least in the prequels the attire and even the philosophy was very Asian. Which is weird because some obvious bad aliens were played by... Asians in the prequels.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah and the Imperial Officer uniform in the OT is almost a 1-to-1 copy of Imperial Japanese military uniforms. The influence of Japanese culture and cinema on Star Wars is pretty well documented.

 

[Set Harth]

 

[JD]

Possibly controversial opinion: In most stories set during the thousand years between the supposed disappearance of the Sith and The Phantom Menace, the Jedi shouldn’t be running into red-bladed Darksiders and having lightsaber duels. I say this despite having really liked The Acolyte. But TPM implies that a well-read Jedi can encounter a Sith and only speculate that that might be what it is, because none have been encountered in centuries — which further implies that the Jedi may use lightsabers, but presumably whatever criminals/etc they fight aren’t using them, since generally nobody else does onscreen. So pre-TPM stories where they run into imposing figures in black wielding red lightsabers are basically retcons. If anything, most Jedi adventures probably don’t involve much fighting at all — but when it happens, it shouldn’t be saber-vs-saber duels.

There could have still been darksiders around, since more than just Jedi and Sith use the force, but not sure if they would have red lightsabers, we have seen some non-Sith use red sabers, but most of them, like the Inquisitors are still related to the Sith.

I always noticed that at least in the prequels the attire and even the philosophy was very Asian. Which is weird because some obvious bad aliens were played by... Asians in the prequels.

If you're talking about the Neimoidians, the only one of them played by an Asian actor was Lok Durd, who was voiced by George Takei.

 

[David cgc]

There could have still been darksiders around, since more than just Jedi and Sith use the force, but not sure if they would have red lightsabers, we have seen some non-Sith use red sabers, but most of them, like the Inquisitors are still related to the Sith.

Since the new canon has established the red lightsaber is a side-effect of overcoming a kyber crystal's disinclination to cooperate with someone devoted to the dark side of the Force, it'd seem like it'd be obligatory for anyone power-hungry and evil who wanted a reliable weapon (or maybe just red-tinted, we still don't know what the deal is with the orange colored blades in "Asoka").

 

[Tuskin38]

Since the new canon has established the red lightsaber is a side-effect of overcoming a kyber crystal's disinclination to cooperate with someone devoted to the dark side of the Force, it'd seem like it'd be obligatory for anyone power-hungry and evil who wanted a reliable weapon (or maybe just red-tinted, we still don't know what the deal is with the orange colored blades in "Asoka").

What's interesting, I came across a single mention of purifying/cleansing a red crystal in Legends of all places, it only happened once, probably because it was in one of the last novels to release before Disney bought the company

Cleanse

This was an application of the Force performed by Jaden Korr in 41.5 ABY. After taking the defeated Kam Solusar clone Alpha's unstable red lightsaber, Jaden decided to make it his own. Reluctant to use a red crystal, and not wanting an inadequate blade, Korr removed the crystal and cleansed it...

starwars.fandom.com

 

[FredH]

Not entirely sure this is my opinion, so I’m just presenting it as a proposition that fits the screen evidence, re droids:

Droids in the SW universe — including those whose POVs we’ve followed, and whom both we and the organic characters love — are extraordinarily superadvanced (by our standards) mobile LLMs. They are not in fact conscious/self-aware, but their responsive/adaptive algorithms are so good that to an outside perspective, it doesn’t matter: they develop and act as if they were conscious — even with each other — to the point that an observer cannot tell the difference. Which leads to kinder organics relating to them as if they were really alive because, well, why wouldn’t you (especially when their reactions so closely match what you’d expect from an organic — even apparent reactive emotional states)? While less kind organics just see them as tools.

Droid actions and “initiative” — which can be extensive, clever and complex — are always reactive, however. (Of course, it may be argued that in the long run, this is true of organics as well.)

(Also, astromechs and other droids can communicate with each other in the GFFA equivalent of Gibberlink for greater efficiency, just as AI bots can apparently do now in real life.)

And this is why even the “nice” characters in SW who consider their droids to be their friends, nevertheless don’t usually hesitate to casually order them around.

 

[Tuskin38]

There is a line from Obi-Wan in AOTC that implies droid can't think.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yep. In Dexter Jettster's diner, after Dex ribs the Jedi Temple analysis droids for not correctly identifying the Kamino saber dart.

 

[FredH]

Yep. In Dexter Jettster's diner, after Dex ribs the Jedi Temple analysis droids for not correctly identifying the Kamino saber dart.

(Though you’d think it’d be in the database. Maybe whomever wiped Kamino wiped that too.)

And in that scene, Obi-Wan makes the “If droids could think, there’d none of us be here” comment.

(Though I used to have an idea for a story to counter that, with Obi-Wan coming across a squad of Clonetroopers torturing a captured battle droid for fun, intervening, and having that change his worldview a tad.)

 

[Commander Troi]

Personally, I've felt that the droids we've seen show every sign of sentience and it's only a cultural thing that humans don't (for the most part) want to acknowledge that. It allows people to use and basically enslave droids by thinking they aren't "really alive." It reminds me of people who still eat octopus even though we now know how intelligent they are.

 

[The Wormhole]

Though I used to have an idea for a story to counter that, with Obi-Wan coming across a squad of Clonetroopers torturing a captured battle droid for fun, intervening, and having that change his worldview a tad.

Considering battle droids are primarily a source of comic relief, I should think if there were such a scene with Clones torturing a battle droid "for fun" we'd end up finding out the battle droid is comically masochistic and thus was enjoying himself.

 

[FredH]

Personally, I've felt that the droids we've seen show every sign of sentience and it's only a cultural thing that humans don't (for the most part) want to acknowledge that. It allows people to use and basically enslave droids by thinking they aren't "really alive." It reminds me of people who still eat octopus even though we now know how intelligent they are.

I used to assume this (and it still may be true canonically, I don’t know); certainly the stories treat them as sentient — except for when they don’t, as in Kenobi’s comment. It can be read either way. Certainly I grew up assuming they were conscious; it’s basically the double whammy of (a) how modern “AI” seems to be developing, and (b) the fact that Alan Tudyk’s character in Rogue One and the IG droid in The Mandalorian are both beloved friends, but only because they were reprogrammed to become so, that makes it start to feel less likely to me.

 

[Commander Troi]

OK, I can understand that.

 

[Set Harth]

(Though I used to have an idea for a story to counter that, with Obi-Wan coming across a squad of Clonetroopers torturing a captured battle droid for fun, intervening, and having that change his worldview a tad.)

I feel like droid torture ( looking at you ROTJ ) was the first time Star Wars became unabashedly stupid.

"But they're programmed to act like they feel pain!"

Yeah, I don't give a crap.

 

[FredH]

I feel like droid torture ( looking at you ROTJ ) was the first time Star Wars became unabashedly stupid.

"But they're programmed to act like they feel pain!"

Yeah, I don't give a crap.

Well, pain does serve a survival purpose…

 

[fireproof78]

Well, pain does serve a survival purpose…

Motivation. It's served biological organisms well and could serve to help protect organics since droids, or certain types, could respond to hazards.

Possibly also meant to keep droids in check after the whole war thing.

 

[JD]

Not entirely sure this is my opinion, so I’m just presenting it as a proposition that fits the screen evidence, re droids:

Droids in the SW universe — including those whose POVs we’ve followed, and whom both we and the organic characters love — are extraordinarily superadvanced (by our standards) mobile LLMs. They are not in fact conscious/self-aware, but their responsive/adaptive algorithms are so good that to an outside perspective, it doesn’t matter: they develop and act as if they were conscious — even with each other — to the point that an observer cannot tell the difference. Which leads to kinder organics relating to them as if they were really alive because, well, why wouldn’t you (especially when their reactions so closely match what you’d expect from an organic — even apparent reactive emotional states)? While less kind organics just see them as tools.

Droid actions and “initiative” — which can be extensive, clever and complex — are always reactive, however. (Of course, it may be argued that in the long run, this is true of organics as well.)

(Also, astromechs and other droids can communicate with each other in the GFFA equivalent of Gibberlink for greater efficiency, just as AI bots can apparently do now in real life.)

And this is why even the “nice” characters in SW who consider their droids to be their friends, nevertheless don’t usually hesitate to casually order them around.

That is an interesting perspective, and would explain a lot of the attitudes we see.
I've often wondered if it might also be related to how often their systems are wiped. I swore there was an episode or movie where they made a reference to doing regular system wipes of droids, but the characters weren't doing it to their droid like most people do. So my thinking is perhaps if they are wiped regularly they never develop sentience or at least don't appear as sentient and operate on pure programing, and the longer they go without being wiped the more sentient or "sentient" they become.

Personally, I've felt that the droids we've seen show every sign of sentience and it's only a cultural thing that humans don't (for the most part) want to acknowledge that. It allows people to use and basically enslave droids by thinking they aren't "really alive." It reminds me of people who still eat octopus even though we now know how intelligent they are.

Yeah, as an animal rights supporter, I see a lot of similarities between how modern people think of animals, and the way droids are treated in the Star Wars. People ignore their sentience and write them off as mindless things that can just be used withought an consideration to their well being or how the feel. Although the situation is admittedly a bit more complicated in the Star Wars universe since the droids are made the be used, even if at least some of them do seem to develop beyond just their basic programming.

 

[FredH]

I've often wondered if it might also be related to how often their systems are wiped. I swore there was an episode or movie where they made a reference to doing regular system wipes of droids, but the characters weren't doing it to their droid like most people do. So my thinking is perhaps if they are wiped regularly they never develop sentience or at least don't appear as sentient and operate on pure programing, and the longer they go without being wiped the more sentient or "sentient" they become.

Yeah, pretty sure that’s canon. Owen Lars wants R2’s memory erased in ANH (though it doesn’t happen), and 3PO’s memory is ordered erased at the end of Episode III.