Spoilers Captain America: Brave New World grade and discussion thread

[Tallguy]

How's that different from how "The Dark Knight" was really more about Harvey Dent and Joker instead of Batman?

Because The Dark Knight was not about Harvey Dent and The Joker.

(I'm not the biggest TDK fan but here goes Both of them were the opposition of what Bruce Wayne was either standing against or feared becoming. Dent falls from grace and The Joker is simply chaos.

The arc is entirely Bruce Wayne's. And he ends with saying "My reputation as a hero is not what Gotham needs."

Ross has a "redemption" arc. He feels bad and he sits in a cell. (I have no idea what actual action he feels bad for. "I won't be as much of a jerk?")

They also try to spit the difference with the Thinker: Ross wouldn't let him go because Sterns was keeping him alive. Understandable. Motivating. (Still bad.) But ALSO Ross would never have become president without Sterns' strategy. Really? ("Step 1: Become Harrison Ford.") So he has the wrong but far more justifiable reasoning of "I will DIE". Isn't that enough? And also: Having a REALLY good campaign manager is supposed to be somehow discrediting? Now having a REALLY good CAPTIVE campaign manager is problematic. But it's not the captive part that is supposed to make Ross slimy.

Hey, who was Ross' VP?

The more I'm thinking about it the more wrong footed Sam's "when will I be enough" speech lands. It's not Sam. I mean, maybe this was some internal conflict he always had when he was hanging around with Super Soldiers and Gods. "Avenging is your world. And your world is... Crazy."

Maybe it's one of those Marvel things where they assume the audience has been with this character through thick and thin and knows the man and this is some kind of thing he was having with himself. But it's not. This is Sam looking at the audience and saying "I'M CAPTAIN AMERICA and when will that be OK?" Which is... What's a different more positive word for entitled? It's Sam saying that he is, well, WORTHY. And he is. But that still doesn't feel like the Sam we've been watching for 11 years.

You know, just like this movie needed Bruce Banner (if this was the story they wanted to tell) it also needed Steve Rogers. "No really, Sam. I picked you. For a reason. Believe that."

Sam doesn't have an arc. He stands still and the movie "catches up with him".

 

[Anwar]

Because The Dark Knight was not about Harvey Dent and The Joker.

(I'm not the biggest TDK fan but here goes Both of them were the opposition of what Bruce Wayne was either standing against or feared becoming. Dent falls from grace and The Joker is simply chaos.

The arc is entirely Bruce Wayne's. And he ends with saying "My reputation as a hero is not what Gotham needs."

That's not much of an arc at all, and both Joker and Dent get the lion's share of real importance to the plot while all Batman does is react to them.

They also try to spit the difference with the Thinker: Ross wouldn't let him go because Sterns was keeping him alive. Understandable. Motivating. (Still bad.) But ALSO Ross would never have become president without Sterns' strategy. Really? ("Step 1: Become Harrison Ford.") So he has the wrong but far more justifiable reasoning of "I will DIE". Isn't that enough? And also: Having a REALLY good campaign manager is supposed to be somehow discrediting? Now having a REALLY good CAPTIVE campaign manager is problematic. But it's not the captive part that is supposed to make Ross slimy.

It was supposed to be all of it together that made Ross slimy.

The more I'm thinking about it the more wrong footed Sam's "when will I be enough" speech lands. It's not Sam. I mean, maybe this was some internal conflict he always had when he was hanging around with Super Soldiers and Gods. "Avenging is your world. And your world is... Crazy."

Maybe it's one of those Marvel things where they assume the audience has been with this character through thick and thin and knows the man and this is some kind of thing he was having with himself. But it's not. This is Sam looking at the audience and saying "I'M CAPTAIN AMERICA and when will that be OK?" Which is... What's a different more positive word for entitled? It's Sam saying that he is, well, WORTHY. And he is. But that still doesn't feel like the Sam we've been watching for 11 years.

It's a follow up to what he went through in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show. People need to watch that first.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It's a follow up to what he went through in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show. People need to watch that first.

And that's a problem. And I say that as someone who enjoyed the movie.

 

[Tallguy]

That's not much of an arc at all, and both Joker and Dent get the lion's share of real importance to the plot while all Batman does is react to them.

And that's his arc. It's not much but it's not Harvey and Joker's arc.

It's a follow up to what he went through in the Falcon/Winter Soldier show. People need to watch that first.

I did. So what I said previously, just add "Having watched Falcon and The Winter Soldier and Brave New World the more I'm thinking about it the more wrong footed Sam's "when will I be enough" speech lands. It's not Sam..."

Sam doesn't really think ANYONE should be Captain America, but they forced his hand by making John Walker the "official" Captain America.

 

[Anwar]

And that's his arc. It's not much but it's not Harvey and Joker's arc.

"Not Much" isn't very good when you're supposed to be the proactive lead.

I did. So what I said previously, just add "Having watched Falcon and The Winter Soldier and Brave New World the more I'm thinking about it the more wrong footed Sam's "when will I be enough" speech lands. It's not Sam..."

Sam doesn't really think ANYONE should be Captain America, but they forced his hand by making John Walker the "official" Captain America.

Yes, and he's still struggling with it because on some level he still thinks no one should be Captain America but he's seen what happens if someone else takes the name.

 

[Tallguy]

"Not Much" isn't very good when you're supposed to be the proactive lead.

As opposed to "none at all" in Captain America: Brave New World.

Yes, and he's still struggling with it because on some level he still thinks no one should be Captain America but he's seen what happens if someone else takes the name.

Based on what? It would make sense if he was, but there is no indication of this on screen. He seems very comfortable with being Cap in this film.

 

[Anwar]

As opposed to "none at all" in Captain America: Brave New World.

By that logic, Steve had no character arc in Civil War.

Based on what? It would make sense if he was, but there is no indication of this on screen. He seems very comfortable with being Cap in this film.

If they focused too much on it, it would just be a retread of FATWS.

 

[Tallguy]

By that logic, Steve had no character arc in Civil War.

Steve QUIT being Captain America. What did Sam do in this film? He's in the same place he was at the end of the movie as he is at the start.

If they focused too much on it, it would just be a retread of FATWS.

They didn't focus on it, mention it, hint at it, write it on a whiteboard out of focus and in the back of a shot.

 

[Anwar]

Steve QUIT being Captain America. What did Sam do in this film? He's in the same place he was at the end of the movie as he is at the start.

He didn't really "Quit", he goes on the run. That's just him being a maverick, which we've known since the very first Cap movie.

They didn't focus on it, mention it, hint at it, write it on a whiteboard out of focus and in the back of a shot.

And if they had been more blatant, you think it would've gone over well?

 

[oktay]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Tallguy]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Is THAT what they were talking about?!?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Huh. That didn't come off at all. I only got that The Leader (somehow) was able to calculate and predict the impending multiverse incursions. Nothing about the Illumanti.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yeah, that makes zero sense.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I went and actually read the interview (craziness!) and the tweet is somewhat misleading. Here's the actual question and answer:

You mentioned that there’s no shortage of characters in this movie, but from what I hear, there were also, at a time, going to be more. There was going to be an Illuminati, at one point in this script. Who was in your Illuminati? Because we saw them in “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness,” I need to know who was in yours.​

​

I’m not going to say! I’m not going to say (laughs). Let’s just say things are purposely left vague in that post-credit for a reason.​

​

Mind you, the question doesn't actually mention post-credits scene and the director brings it up in his non-answer about the Illumanti. So my guess is that the director had originally had a reference to them in that scene but then scaled it back to the point there was no reference at all, hence the vagueness bit.

 

[Noname Given]

Huh. That didn't come off at all. I only got that The Leader (somehow) was able to calculate and predict the impending multiverse incursions. Nothing about the Illumanti.

That was my take on the post credit scene as well. I didn't get a feeling that The Illuminati was what the leader was referring to at all.

This is why I try to avoid spoilers and leaks. Movies are tweaked and edited up to the release date all the time; so if you read some script leak and really get enamored with it, suddenly find out it's not in the film; then the film becomes garbage for you.

This also wasn't the first film where they included scenes in the trailer that weren't in the final cut. This is not something unique to MCU films as it happens in the film industry all the time.

But yeah, anyone who wants to find a reason to absolutely hate a film will find one.

Was this the worst or most disjointed film in the MCU? For me, hardly. It certainly wasn't an earth-shattering entry, but I was able to follow along, and overall I enjoyed the film. YMMV.

 

[HIjol]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned;

I sure am noticing “them” pimping the sh*t out of the new Cap;

Top Golf
Insurance
Laundry Products
Barbasol ??? (!!!)
MicroSquash
McDonald’s (ok, Happy Meals)

I do not remember Iron Man, Thanos or Doctor Strange shilling like this???

It, did I just miss it?

 

[Tallguy]

It, did I just miss it?

You missed it. My kids had Civil War on all their snacks for FOREVER.

 

[Noname Given]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned;

I sure am noticing “them” pimping the sh*t out of the new Cap;

Top Golf
Insurance
Laundry Products
Barbasol ??? (!!!)
MicroSquash
McDonald’s (ok, Happy Meals)

I do not remember Iron Man, Thanos or Doctor Strange shilling like this???

It, did I just miss it?

Yeah, you just missed it. They do this type of licensing for any large IP film.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

And a Adamantium macguffin that went nowhere, bub.

Adamantium was never a macguffin in this movie. It was just the impetus for the international treaty Ross was trying to pull together as his legacy to change the world for the better.

Which he successfully did, in the end, once he stopped trying to justify his past and just owned up to his shit.

They also try to spit the difference with the Thinker: Ross wouldn't let him go because Sterns was keeping him alive. Understandable. Motivating. (Still bad.) But ALSO Ross would never have become president without Sterns' strategy. Really? ("Step 1: Become Harrison Ford.") So he has the wrong but far more justifiable reasoning of "I will DIE". Isn't that enough? And also: Having a REALLY good campaign manager is supposed to be somehow discrediting? Now having a REALLY good CAPTIVE campaign manager is problematic. But it's not the captive part that is supposed to make Ross slimy.

?

The captive part is absolutely supposed to make Ross slimy. But also, 'President traded for campaign advice by giving favors and preferential treatment (including a fully decked out lab) to criminal mastermind scientist who was supposed to be locked away for life' ain't exactly squeaky clean, either.

 

[Commander Troi]

TIL that Isaiah Bradley in Captain America is John Parker from Buckaroo Banzai! Identify y'self, no?

Carl is Da Bomb.