Well, to be fair, the original series did that by establishing an alliance between the Klingons and the Romulans. Of course, that was done for real-world budgetary reasons rather than story reasons.
Garrett Wang on his original role in PIC S3.
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I would have been happier if Brent Spiner's last appearance had been at the end of S1.
i was just going to post the same thing; i don't know why it is bad or fan-ficcy - and it has a lot of parallels with real-world alliances.
The alliance was a common assumption, but all that was said onscreen was that the Romulans were using Klingon ship designs. They could have been stolen or purchased.
At the time of the episode’s broadcast, yes. But later on, TNG mentioned they had an alliance.
Specifically the Borg and Dominion two final boss level villains that it makes absolutely zero sense could or would ever team up. Now if you can make sense out of it a bad guy team up can be very exciting and fun. Like the Cardassians and Breen joining the Dominion so we had a whole Legion of Doom going on. And Sela and the Duras sisters.
Some BBS posters let their own strawman fallacies of Terry Matalas live rent free in their heads. Is the season perfect? No. But of the Star Trek we've gotten in the last decade plus, it's the most "of a piece" with the Star Trek that came before 2005.
A Borg / rogue Changeling alliance? It makes sense both from a production perspective and in-universe.
Not only were the Borg the Big Bad for TNG and VGR, but they are likely the most new-to-the-Berman-Era Trek species known to the general public. The Changelings were the Big Bad for DS9. PS3 was like a movie and a TNG reunion. You aren't going to have forgotten one off episode villains be the Big Bad. The Borg sell, and are understandable to the General Audience. Shape shifters are also easily understandable by the General Audience, many of whom likely have a distant memory of DS9 from when it was airing.
Contrary to rumors, Armus and the Pah-Wraiths just weren't going to be the main antagonists of a TNG reunion. Reunions are going to feature the Biggest Bads of the main characters' history coming back. The Dominion are the greatest threat from the Gamma Quadrant. The Rogue Changelings serve as a risk of reigniting the Dominion War. The Borg are the greatest threat from the Delta Quadrant. Just what happened to them after "Endgame" is a legit plot point to follow up on. The books did something similar, after all.
Is it a stretch that the rogue Changelings and the Borg crossed paths? Sure. But, again, the greatest powers from the Delta and Gamma Quadrants are going to be known to each other. The ship of the mystique of the Borg sailed with the introduction of the Borg Queen. Why wouldn't a crippled Borg Queen driven by vengeance not try and collaborate with a similarly scorned party who seemingly wants the same goals? The small universe syndrome card doesn't really work with the top major players. In real life Stalin and Hitler teamed up at first as well after all.
The target audience for PS3 was likely people with a past passing familiarity with the Berman Era Star Trek. PS3's continuity call backs are actually much easier than the ones from season 1 and 2.
A Borg / rogue Changeling alliance? It makes sense both from a production perspective and in-universe.
Not only were the Borg the Big Bad for TNG and VGR, but they are likely the most new-to-the-Berman-Era Trek species known to the general public. The Changelings were the Big Bad for DS9. PS3 was like a movie and a TNG reunion. You aren't going to have forgotten one off episode villains be the Big Bad. The Borg sell, and are understandable to the General Audience. Shape shifters are also easily understandable by the General Audience, many of whom likely have a distant memory of DS9 from when it was airing.
Contrary to rumors, Armus and the Pah-Wraiths just weren't going to be the main antagonists of a TNG reunion. Reunions are going to feature the Biggest Bads of the main characters' history coming back. The Dominion are the greatest threat from the Gamma Quadrant. The Rogue Changelings serve as a risk of reigniting the Dominion War. The Borg are the greatest threat from the Delta Quadrant. Just what happened to them after "Endgame" is a legit plot point to follow up on. The books did something similar, after all.
Is it a stretch that the rogue Changelings and the Borg crossed paths? Sure. But, again, the greatest powers from the Delta and Gamma Quadrants are going to be known to each other. The ship of the mystique of the Borg sailed with the introduction of the Borg Queen. Why wouldn't a crippled Borg Queen driven by vengeance not try and collaborate with a similarly scorned party who seemingly wants the same goals? The small universe syndrome card doesn't really work with the top major players. In real life Stalin and Hitler teamed up at first as well after all.
The target audience for PS3 was likely people with a past passing familiarity with the Berman Era Star Trek. PS3's continuity call backs are actually much easier than the ones from season 1 and 2.
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I would say DISCO S4 is the most "of a piece" Trek we've gotten in a long time in spirit.
Since the rogue Changelings are unaffiliated with the Dominion, there's no risk of a new war unless Starfleet would have been stupid enough to invade the GQ in response to the rogue Changelings, which would have been akin to holding Seven responsible for the actions of the Borg, albeit in reverse.
The major issue for me is that I can't think of any sane reason why anyone would make an allliance with the Borg. Janeway did it once and, utterly predictably, the Borg ultimately betrayed her. The rogue Changelings have even less of a reason to want to align themselves with the Borg other than "revenge!!!" which is the least interesting of reasons.
Hell, if the rogue Changelings hadn't already been defeated by Our Heroes then I would have liked to have seen the Borg's first action be to annihilate them. And why not? They knew things that might be useful to Our Heroes, and of course the first rule of assassination is that you kill the assassins.
The whole idea reeks of fanwankery, which is, unfortunately, consistent with much of PIC S3.
Since the rogue Changelings are unaffiliated with the Dominion, there's no risk of a new war unless Starfleet would have been stupid enough to invade the GQ in response to the rogue Changelings, which would have been akin to holding Seven responsible for the actions of the Borg, albeit in reverse.
The major issue for me is that I can't think of any sane reason why anyone would make an allliance with the Borg. Janeway did it once and, utterly predictably, the Borg ultimately betrayed her. The rogue Changelings have even less of a reason to want to align themselves with the Borg other than "revenge!!!" which is the least interesting of reasons.
Hell, if the rogue Changelings hadn't already been defeated by Our Heroes then I would have liked to have seen the Borg's first action be to annihilate them. And why not? They knew things that might be useful to Our Heroes, and of course the first rule of assassination is that you kill the assassins.
The whole idea reeks of fanwankery, which is, unfortunately, consistent with much of PIC S3.
I don't think the the rogue Changelings cared if they got betrayed. Their shapeshifting upgrade came at the price of a shorter lifespan so they'd basically accepted a suicide mission.
But does it fit hand in glove with everything VGR and ENT established about the far future?
Which is why they have Worf bring it up when talking indirectly about Odo. The risk would be enough to spook people.
Vadic is unstable, to the point she kills her own followers as an example of message violence to the audience. Not everything needs to be that complicated for the sake of being complicated.
For all we know, many of the Changelings were killed by the Borgified Starfleet officers. If Shelby was intended to survive, one option might be that she'd been replaced by a Changeling on the Enterprise-F.
That's just an empty pejorative. It's like saying X in DISCOVERY reeks of wokeness or Y in STLD reeks of memberberries. What's really funny is the other PICARD seasons actually have more "homework" regarding plot call backs and references. No one has spent over two years litigating how PS2 references "Assignment: Earth", "The Changeling", or god forbid COTEOF.
At this point, PS3 has been subjected to a murder board worth of scrutiny, especially compared to anything else post-2017. It mostly holds up, which is a win for a production limited by the real word constraints of time, money, and executive interference.
When SNW does "fanwankery" is it really different? Or more of a TOS vs TNG thing? The universe of PS3 is a lived in period piece extension of the TNG / DS9 / VGR era.
I think that discussions like this remind me that Trek since 2017, and possibly earlier, has heavily relied on nostalgia and memberberries to get the audience engaged. In effect, it has formed the backbone of this new era. It's inescapable in a sense.
Picard S3 gets the most flack because it's all been squeezed into one season. It's like a condensed version of modern Trek. It didn't have the luxury of 5 seasons to get this stuff out there more quietly.
I can't think of a single show that hasn't had a memberberry for the sake of memberberries. Why did they use the Guardian of Forever so suddenly in DSC? Of all the things they could've used, when they had a super-advanced 'Red Angel' suit built with 23rd century tech...that coincidentally couldn't be repaired in the 32nd century? Dialogue and technobabble could've fixed that in half an episode. Off ya go Georgiou!
But no, they want people making posts on twitter(rip) about it, and create engagement. It's quite smart, in a way, but it is the main reason I'll never rip into PIC S3 for being overly nostalgic. They truly love us talking about it, and it's still being brought up in unrelated threads to this day.
Picard S3 gets the most flack because it's all been squeezed into one season. It's like a condensed version of modern Trek. It didn't have the luxury of 5 seasons to get this stuff out there more quietly.
I can't think of a single show that hasn't had a memberberry for the sake of memberberries. Why did they use the Guardian of Forever so suddenly in DSC? Of all the things they could've used, when they had a super-advanced 'Red Angel' suit built with 23rd century tech...that coincidentally couldn't be repaired in the 32nd century? Dialogue and technobabble could've fixed that in half an episode. Off ya go Georgiou!
But no, they want people making posts on twitter(rip) about it, and create engagement. It's quite smart, in a way, but it is the main reason I'll never rip into PIC S3 for being overly nostalgic. They truly love us talking about it, and it's still being brought up in unrelated threads to this day.
Tô bem... Uh let's try that again autocorrect, this is EN not PT...
To be fair, the earlier seasons [EDITED// of PICARD] were full of toxic "anti-fan service", so maybe season 3, if it is guilty of "fan service" at all, let alone excessive amounts, should be given certain allowances for the need to win back alienated audiences.
Which is one thing that really pisses off the continuity people because they don't stay in their lane and instead use past stuff as a crutch.
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I'm currently watching DSC S1. So far we've had Sarek, Harry Mudd, a dead Gorn, a Tribble, Corvan II, a Preserver Obelisk, Chateau Picard, Vulcan ship from First Contact and I've probably missed other things. Bearing in mind, I'm only half way through.
I don't know if any of that is anti-fan service, but all I can say is that there's more memberberries than I can remember from my first watch.
In this case I ment earlier PICARD seasons... went back to edit the earlier posts.
But on DISCOVERY season 1... It got a ton of attention when it first premiered... then the interest fell off a cliff.
Brining back Harry, making him a Captain of the Enterprise and immediately killing him would have been hilarious.
When the Romulans joined the Federation/Klingon alliance against the Dominion, these people must have cried "small universe"
Gowron in his appearances on DS9 was probably just a bembermerry as well
Yeah my phone just turned 4 years old. As anyone with an Android can tell you, if the battery doesn't get you, it's autocorrect increasingly acting up. After multiple tries I was like screw it, not going to go back and editing.You're just FULL of surprises!
Yeah funny what happens when the same degree of analytical rigour is applied elsewhere in the franchise.When the Romulans joined the Federation/Klingon alliance against the Dominion, these people must have cried "small universe"
Gowron in his appearances on DS9 was probably just a bembermerry as well
YesWhen the Romulans joined the Federation/Klingon alliance against the Dominion, these people must have cried "small universe"
Gowron in his appearances on DS9 was probably just a bembermerry as well
Didn't like Gowron in DS9.
This is fun though:
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