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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


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In light of that article, which is pretty clickbaity without being offensively so, my current feelings about both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter vis a vis the Canonical MCU are that if you're going to consider them Canon, they have to be Multiversal and not part of the Sacred Timeline.
 
I don't see why they can be part of the main universe. Agent Carter does have issues with Captain America going back in time but I guess that raises the old question of whether or not he created alternate timeline. I think he did and likely was very active at stopping or trying to stop lots of the bad things that he knew could happen, from knowing they happened in the main universe. I kind of like the idea that this new universe is were the Mutants were created and who will eventually merge into the main universe.
 
I don't see why they can be part of the main universe. Agent Carter does have issues with Captain America going back in time but I guess that raises the old question of whether or not he created alternate timeline. I think he did and likely was very active at stopping or trying to stop lots of the bad things that he knew could happen, from knowing they happened in the main universe. I kind of like the idea that this new universe is were the Mutants were created and who will eventually merge into the main universe.

It's been a while since I saw Agent Carter, but I believe that the show's treatment of the Black Widow program is inconsistent - in both structure and dating - with the details about it that are provided by the Black Widow film.There is also, as you said, the Old Steve thing, which we know, explicitly, didn't create an alternate timeline.

With Agents of S.H.I.EL.D., the incompatibilies with the Sacred Timeline are much more significant, not only because of what happens with AoS in its later seasons, but also because it's made clear that, on the Sacred Timeline, Agent Coulson did in fact die in The Avengers and stayed dead, which completely invalidates AoS' entire premise and narrative structure.
 
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the Old Steve thing, which we know, explicitly, didn't create an alternate timeline.
....but it did?

"One thing that's clear that Anthony and I have discussed, I don't know that we've discussed this publicly at all, Cap would have had to have traveled back to the main timeline. That's something that, yes, he would have been in a branch reality, but he would have to travel back to the main timeline to give that shield to Sam Wilson."

it's made clear that, on the Sacred Timeline, Agent Coulson did in fact die in The Avengers and stayed dead
when was that made clear?
 
....but it did?

"One thing that's clear that Anthony and I have discussed, I don't know that we've discussed this publicly at all, Cap would have had to have traveled back to the main timeline. That's something that, yes, he would have been in a branch reality, but he would have to travel back to the main timeline to give that shield to Sam Wilson."

Genuine question: where is this comment from? Because everything that i had heretofore seen from the Russos on the subject of Old Steve pointed to his traveling back in time putting him in the 'offscreen background' of the Sacred Timeline for pretty much everything following the mid-1940s.

when was that made clear?

Loki.

I'd thought it happened in either Far From Home, Captain Marvel, or The Marvels, but when I looked it up to confirm, I found out that it was actually Loki that did it.
 
That was not made clear in Loki. ALL that was made clear in Loki was that Loki killed Coulson in cold blood. Which he did. There was no line of dialogue that said, "luckily it didn't stick", because it wasn't necessary for the story that they were telling here. That said, I do accept that Agents of SHIELD takes place on Earth 617, along with Agent Carter, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger. I just do not believe that anything was confirmed one way or the other by Loki.
 
Genuine question: where is this comment from?
Because everything that i had heretofore seen from the Russos on the subject of Old Steve pointed to his traveling back in time putting him in the 'offscreen background' of the Sacred Timeline for pretty much everything following the mid-1940s.
To my knowledge, the Russos have not said that, because they believe otherwise.
I'd thought it happened in either Far From Home, Captain Marvel, or The Marvels, but when I looked it up to confirm, I found out that it was actually Loki that did it.
Loki did not address the question either way as far as I can recall.
 
That said, I do accept that Agents of SHIELD takes place on Earth 617, along with Agent Carter, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger.

I still prefer to believe they took place in the main MCU, unless proven otherwise. It sounds like the guy in charge wants to reconcile them if possible. I still think AoS season 6 can be presumed to take place post-Snap, at a point when people are still in denial and just trying to avoid talking about it and get on with their lives as if nothing had happened. It's narrow enough in its focus that we don't see much of the wider world anyway. Alternatively, the show could be in the main MCU until the cast's time travel, and they're in an alternate branch when they get back.

The one real sticking point is how the Inhumans became such a big deal in AoS and yet there's no sign of their existence anywhere in the movie/Disney+ franchise so far. But we've also gone a few years without any mention of the big giant stone hand sticking out of the planet, so it's not necessarily a dealbreaker.
 
I prefer the idea that AoS takes place in alternate timeline, as it went along, it just go harder and harder to believe that we wouldn't have seen the show and the movies effect each other. I know that kind of thing happens in shared universes a lot, but you can usually still find signs that they are in the same universe, but we didn't even get that in the last few seasons of AoS.
 
My one issue was AoS used the Darkhold differently than we saw it used in the Doctor Strange movie by Wanda.
 
Anybody watch the first two episodes of Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man? I only got a chance to watch the first half or so of the first episode, and I was really enjoying it. I'm hoping to finish them tomorrow morning.
 
Just finished watching them.
Was enjoyable enough.
It's not part of the MCU, or at least not of the main MCU universe.
But they referenced the MCU quite a bit indirecty.
Doctor Strange's theme music, Osborne introducing himself exactly the same way Tony introduced himself, the costume obviously...
No sign of Ned...

I didn't know anything about it beforehand and was really surprised Nico Minoru is so heavily featured.
I want to know if she already had the Staff of One or if she will get it at some point later without the rest of the Runaways.

The voice actor of Peter apparently said some really dumb shit before the launch, which made me consider not watching it. But whatever his deal is, f him.

Gonna be here for it next week.
 

To my knowledge, the Russos have not said that, because they believe otherwise.

I got the Russos confused with Endgame's writers.

Loki did not address the question either way as far as I can recall.

All I can go on is what I was able to find in researching the subject, but even if Loki didn't directly confirm that Coulson died in 2012 definitively, the reference book Marvel Studios The Marvel Cinematic Universe An Official Timeline (published 2 years ago) does. (at least according to what, agwinw, I could find in researching the subject).
 
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Marvel Studios will officially release 2 new trailers during the Super Bowl.Their upcoming films include ‘CAPTAIN AMERICA: BRAVE NEW WORLD’, ‘THUNDERBOLTS*’ and ‘THE FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS’.(Via: Deadline)
 
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Marvel Studios will officially release 2 new trailers during the Super Bowl.Their upcoming films include ‘CAPTAIN AMERICA: BRAVE NEW WORLD’, ‘THUNDERBOLTS*’ and ‘THE FANTASTIC FOUR: FIRST STEPS’.(Via: Deadline)
Cap and T-bolts are my guess.
 
I thought Friendly Neighborhood was pretty good, though it's surprisingly slow-paced, more like subdivisions of a movie than episodes of a TV show. Weird choice to have Peter get his powers as a result of what I guess was a multiversal breach or something. (Was that a Venomized Sabretooth that Strange was fighting?) Quite a different set of characters than we usually see in Spidey stories. There were some names I didn't recognize at all, like Pearl.

The action sequences are pretty clever and dynamic. I got used to the animation style pretty quickly, aside from one distracting detail -- the "shadows" supposedly cast on the characters' necks by their chins are just black trapezoids painted on the necks, not moving when the characters turn their heads. Once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it.

The voice actor of Peter apparently said some really dumb shit before the launch, which made me consider not watching it. But whatever his deal is, f him.

The way I see it, actors are just employees hired to do what the writers, producers, and directors tell them to do, so their own personal issues or opinions have no bearing on the worth of the production. There are hundreds of people involved in making a TV show, and there's no reason we should give any more weight to the opinions of a lead actor than we would to the opinions of some key grip or sound effects editor whose name is buried in the credits. All that's relevant to us is the end product they collectively create for us.

But it was pretty bizarre what Thames said, that he was worried the show would be "too woke," implying he believes it isn't woke. I mean, it's got the most ethnically diverse cast of any Spidey cartoon ever, it's race-swapped the Osborns and gender- and race-swapped Doc Connors, and Nico is apparently lesbian given how she acted toward Pearl. It could hardly be more woke. I can only surmise that Thames doesn't actually know what the word means, which is all the more reason not to worry about it.
 
I hadn't heard of her either so I check Wikipedia, and Pearl is a character from the comics, she's Wave, a member of the all Asian Agents. I guess the fact that she has water based powers in the comics would explain her talking about being on the swim team in a clip released the other day.
And I believe pretty much every version of Nico has been gay, she becomes involved with fellow Runaway Karolina in both the comics and TV series.
 
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