Native American representation

[evilchumlee]

By not acknowledging, anyone in theory can imprint what they want and feel representated. By naming a country of origin, you immediately exclude the rest and people complain.

That's also a fair observation.

Although that makes it seem somewhat odd to me that so many black Trek characters are noted as being from somewhere specific, and usually not the US (where the majority of the viewers are from, given it's an American show). Uhura and M'Benga are from Kenya. Owosekan is from Nigeria. Geordie is from Somalia. Mayweather is from Space. We just really have Sisko from New Orleans.

With white people and latino's, given they're generally American actors, I kind of just always assume they're... American.

 

[CorporalClegg]

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[MikHutch]

"Not acknowledging" seems unfair considering how many basic White Americans we got on Star Trek

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

If we're talking about a group that really needs more immediate attention, it's probably South Asians/Indians.

I don't want to detract from the Native American theme here but at least there actually has been a NA character at all, even if drawn inaccurately.

Currently the Indian subcontent (24% of the world population in those 4 countries - closer to 28% if diaspora are included) has had no representation as even a recurring character, unless you count the genocidal murdering dictator, or the fella that sat dutifully at a desk for 40 years waiting to get permission to unfurl a flag - in itself a lazy steroetype.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought there was an Indian captain in Star Trek 4?

Not that we don't need more.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

I thought there was an Indian captain in Star Trek 4?

Not that we don't need more.

I thought there was an Indian captain in Star Trek 4?

Not that we don't need more.

Whenever I raise this subject something similar happens.

I get pointed to Vance (vaguely brown, Israeli actor),
Bashir (vaguely brown, half-Sudanese actor)

And now, all respect to you, you've indicated Robau (Cuban name, Middle Eastern origin accordin to Orci, and at least played by an actor with Pakistani origins).

Good spot, but he was on screen for 5 minutes and 3 seconds.

 

[fireproof78]

And now, all respect to you, you've indicated Robau (Cuban name, Middle Eastern origin accordin to Orci, and at least played by an actor with Pakistani origins).

No, not that captain. Robau is Pakistani is awesome in of himself.

I'm thinking of this captain.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, not that captain. Robau is Pakistani is awesome in of himself.

I'm thinking of this captain.

There have been a handful of one off characters of Indian origin and characters played by actors of Indian origin. (SNW's T'Pring being the most prominent) Still there's no main character of Indian origin.

 

[fireproof78]

There have been a handful of one off characters of Indian origin and characters played by actors of Indian origin. (SNW's T'Pring being the most prominent) Still there's no main character of Indian origin.

Agreed. I was just clarifying.

More is definitely welcome.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

There have been a handful of one off characters of Indian origin and characters played by actors of Indian origin. (SNW's T'Pring being the most prominent) Still there's no main character of Indian origin.

That's my point - when this is raised, it's either the wrong ethnicity that's quoted, or a minor part or role.

 

[UssGlenn]

Uhura and M'Benga are from Kenya.

Is Uhuras country of origin from SNW? Traditionally, she was said to be from "The United States of Africa", which, since we don't know what part of Africa that covers, meant she could be from anywhere in (likely sub-saharan) Africa. Making her a pan-African representative like Sulu was for Asia originally.

Currently the Indian subcontent (24% of the world population in those 4 countries - closer to 28% if diaspora are included) has had no representation as even a recurring character, unless you count the genocidal murdering dictator, or the fella that sat dutifully at a desk for 40 years waiting to get permission to unfurl a flag - in itself a lazy steroetype.

According to a quick googling, 6.5% of American actors are Asian, and I assume that includes East Asia, South Asia, and India. And the Census puts them at 1.35% nationally, so you are fighting an uphill battle against statistics. according to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_characters page there are 126 human or half human recurring characters. So you are definitely still underrepresented with only Khan on the list. 1.701 characters mathematically speaking. (1701, funny)

 

[David cgc]

Is Uhuras country of origin from SNW? Traditionally, she was said to be from "The United States of Africa", which, since we don't know what part of Africa that covers, meant she could be from anywhere in (likely sub-saharan) Africa. Making her a pan-African representative like Sulu was for Asia originally.

One of the first SNW episodes established her hometown was near Lake Simbi.

 

[UssGlenn]

One of the first SNW episodes established her hometown was near Lake Simbi.

Ah, so she could still be from The US of Africa if it includes that region.

 

[evilchumlee]

Ah, so she could still be from The US of Africa if it includes that region.

Yeah, SNW establishes she is from Kenya. Since TOS established a "United States of Africa", I would assume Kenya is a part of that. How one is identified may be dependent on who is doing the identifying... as an American, if someone were to ask me where i'm from, my response would likely be "New Jersey" over "USA", but in an international database or whatever, I would be identified as being from the USA.

Geordie is from Somalia, which is alittle more muddy. Originally it was "The African Confederation", but the remastered TNG changed it to Mogadishu.

I get pointed to Vance (vaguely brown, Israeli actor),
Bashir (vaguely brown, half-Sudanese actor)

What's kind of odd is that to my white-perspective eyes, I thought Alexander Siddig was just a white English dude. I didn't even know until much later that he wasn't. To the point that the episode where they brought his parents on, I was kind of like... why are this parents kinda middle eastern looking?

I would probably have just assumed Vance was a white dude too, but I remember him from "The Mummy" so I have a predisposition for seeing as "some kinda middle eastern".

It's kind of wild to me that we got a non-binary and trans character before we got... an Indian character (of any substance). I don't count Khan. SNW finally him actually appear Indian as a child, but i've forever been convinced that he wasn't Indian by birth (or... design?), rather just taking the name and seizing power in India.

 

[eschaton]

While the record here was pretty awful historically in Star Trek, I'd actually rather we don't revisit this. I say this because Star Trek is supposed to represent the future of all of humanity (and more) and not be "Space America." Native Americans are like 1% of the U.S. population, and the U.S. is just one country in the world. There's a lot of other places which have had zero representation as of yet. Flawed representation actually puts them ahead.

That said, if we went this route, I'd want someone of indigenous ancestry from Latin America, rather than from the U.S. or Canada. There are way, way more Native Americans in Mesoamerica and the Andes today - tens of millions in both cases.

The number one group that's way underrepresented in Trek though is multiracial folks. This is the biggest head-scratcher to me. Interracial relationships happen all the time, and are likely over-represented in Starfleet, given how people from different backgrounds mix. Most humans in Starfleet should thus be "nothing in particular" - brown people with ancestry from multiple continents. Yet we (still) have heavily white casts which are peppered with different visible minorities. There are likely more interspecies hybrids than actual interracial humans.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

The number one group that's way underrepresented in Trek though is multiracial folks. This is the biggest head-scratcher to me. Interracial relationships happen all the time, and are likely over-represented in Starfleet, given how people from different backgrounds mix. Most humans in Starfleet should thus be "nothing in particular" - brown people with ancestry from multiple continents. Yet we (still) have heavily white casts which are peppered with different visible minorities. There are likely more interspecies hybrids than actual interracial humans.

If we were to do this by actors then the following is true:
Alexander Siddig - British mother, Sudanese Father.
Isa Briones - Filipino father, Irish/Swedish mother.
Christina Chong - British / Chinese
Shaz Latif - Pakistani and British

Now admittedly, there are a Klingon, an androind, and two genetically affected humans in there, but there are more mixed race actors there than there are Indian or Pakistani.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I've been under the impression that Willa from DISCO was Native American, but she's a very minor character anyway. Getting a Native American character in the main cast shouldn't be too hard nowadays. Since the U.S. is overused on "Star Trek," they can kill two tribbles with one stone and have a Native American from Canada.

 

[The Wormhole]

hey can kill two tribbles with one stone and have a Native American from Canada.

Canada refers to its Native population as First Nations people.

 

[fireproof78]

I've been under the impression that Willa from DISCO was Native American, but she's a very minor character anyway. Getting a Native American character in the main cast shouldn't be too hard nowadays. Since the U.S. is overused on "Star Trek," they can kill two tribbles with one stone and have a Native American from Canada.

Or from Mexico.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

I would probably have just assumed Vance was a white dude too, but I remember him from "The Mummy" so I have a predisposition for seeing as "some kinda middle eastern"

Vance's actor is Israeli, so yes, he's Middle Eastern. Though, Westerners tend to perceive people of Middle Eastern descent as "white" if they don't have accents or turbans.

What's kind of odd is that to my white-perspective eyes, I thought Alexander Siddig was just a white English dude. I didn't even know until much later that he wasn't. To the point that the episode where they brought his parents on, I was kind of like... why are this parents kinda middle eastern looking?

As a kid I thought Chakotay was a white guy with black hair, and was surprised to learn he was Native American. Being an Ashkenazi Jew whose family identified as "white," I didn't realize until high school that I had a much tanner idea of "white" skin tone than my peers did. It only hit me during a school project that involved painting a couple of Christmas elves on a sign, and I asked my (white) classmates, "I thought we were going to make the girl elf dark-skinned?" And they replied "She is." I looked again and realized she was as tan as me, but the white elf was much more pale in comparison. Then I started to understand why I kept getting asked if I was mixed race.

It's kind of wild to me that we got a non-binary and trans character before we got... an Indian character (of any substance). I don't count Khan. SNW finally him actually appear Indian as a child, but i've forever been convinced that he wasn't Indian by birth (or... design?), rather just taking the name and seizing power in India.

I wonder if the "Star Trek" writers wrote themselves into a corner with the name "Khan Singh." Khan and Singh are the two most common surnames in South Asia, if I'm not mistaken. So now they can't have a character with either of the two most common Indian names without fans expecting a connection to the Khan Singh. (Sounds like a missed opportunity for a gag on "Lower Decks.")