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As I said, SF would likely have an easy time finding and accessing the under-space because VOY's databanks contain useful information from their flight inside it from which they can extrapolate probable locations - but even if they can get there, given that SF generally respects sovereignty of other species, its unlikely they would try using it without Turei consent (or establishment of some kind of diplomatic treaty giving them access - which I don't think the Turei would be necessarily willing to share given that VOY released the Vaadwaur into the galaxy again).
Or it's probably not as easy to find as you're making it.
As far as the Turei are concerned, I'm sure the UFP diplomats can work out something so that everybody can use it to travel w/o having to waste more resources.
More Energy Efficient ways of traveling = Better, especially if the system is already existing.
Plus, it may not be necessary. If SF manages to just get QS v1 operational and if they can use the cruising velocity of about 666.666 Ly's per day (and not running it at its maximum of 300 Ly's per hr unless its an emergency), then they could probably cover massive distances either way much faster if QS v2 is used sparingly for much larger distances where Benamite crystal use accelerates their decay.
Btw regarding the cleaning of the underspace... that would be relatively simple to do.
Just deploy automated drones into the underspace to explore it (or the Turei could have used it) and have them tractor and retrieve the debris (when they find it) which can then be disassembled into energy (or matter reclamation) and used for replication of other things (I suggested the same approach for cleanup of TW tunnels seen and used in Disco 32nd century which were deemed a general hazzard for starship travel - which of course makes you wonder how did Osyraa's massive starship manage to safely traverse it - oh wait, I forgot - the villains get a free pas mostly and come out unscathed, while the heroes have to go through extra trouble).
How would the Burn have affected a race like the Voth with their Transwarp drives. And what speeds would that race possess compared to Starfleet's QSS and other drives?
How would the Burn have affected a race like the Voth with their Transwarp drives. And what speeds would that race possess compared to Starfleet's QSS and other drives?
Wouldn't that depend greatly on how their power and engines work? We know dilithium has multiple uses, including power creation and regulation, depending on the episode of TOS. So, if their engines could rely on something other than dilithium for power generation and regulation then they potentially could be out and ahead of the competition.
But, dilithium seems to be used for far more than just M/AM regulation and warp drive.
How would the Burn have affected a race like the Voth with their Transwarp drives. And what speeds would that race possess compared to Starfleet's QSS and other drives?
Assuming they knew of the vulnerabilities with Dilithium Crystals and how to prevent anything from happening to them incase a "Burn" like situation happens, then they would already be ahead of the game.
They already had Transwarp Drive that was equal or superior to Borg Transwarp Tunnels.
They even have "Spatial Displacement" that let them teleport their StarShips.
That same "Spatial Displacement" technology allows for Cloaking along with moving vessels & people slightly out of phase with our space-time continuum.
The teleportation range on their StarShip level was a mind boggling 90 ly.
That was when we last saw them.
To them, traveling long distances across the stars would be trivial compared to what we can do.
Remember, their City Ship "Transported" Voyager into the inside empty hanger area of their vessel.
They frigging "Transported" Voyager itself, imagine the Transporter Buffer size / capability they must possess if they can do that to a friggin "StarShip" of Voyagers size.
They also managed to take control of Voyager, a species they didn't know much about, despite being VERY DISTANT cousins.
And their City Ships are MASSIVE. We're talking 11 km in length.
That's in the Super Star Destroyer size length category.
For them, crossing the Milky Way Galaxy is trivial.
Whether or not they want to do that, that's another matter.
They have their "Doctrine" to abide by and their empire to maintain.
So I doubt they care about what happens in our part of the Milky Way.
I would imagine that SW Hyperdrives have some throttle control or is affected by space terrain (like TOS) as Solo's dropping the Millenium Falcon out of hyperspace behind the planet barrier in "The Force Awakens" was done on manual control so it had to be slow enough for human reflexes, IMHO.
That said, the majority of hyperspace usage in the Sequel Trilogy does kind of make me come close to tearing my hair out. Not to mention they cross the galaxy about 3 times in 16 hours, in Episode IX (per the official maps)
Certainly the long term lore has implied 'space terrain' is always a key factor. In fact, the old 'rule' was that you could not jump in a planetary atmosphere (though comics like Dark Empire and Republic bent that rule)
The only thing we know is that LOTS of species have been using it for centuries to cross vast distances.
Remember, the Vaadwur "Found it" by accident and made use of it by exploring it.
They even mention needing to "Maintain It".
Giant chunks of 'UnderSpace' isn't even explored properly.
There's no evidence that it's Natural or Artificial.
We just don't have enough info to determine either state.
The only thing we do know is that it's there, to be used.
You would still need "Basic Warp Drive" to even access UnderSpace realistically.
Otherwise, the chances of being right next to a natural aperture for UnderSpace and using it to cross vast distances is "Highly Unlikely, & Improbable".
What will you do once you exit, go at Impluse to the target Star System?
That would leave you incredibly vulnerable if you had to do that and waste ALOT of precious time.
Could it really? The Warp Wings aren't particularly AeroDynamic 'what-so-ever' IMO!
They just look like Wings from a very shallow/simple observation.
If you turned off the Anti-Grav drive/system, I think they'd fall like a brick if in Atmosphere.
If you look at the cross section of the wings, they're a rectangular box that is forward swept with no curvature at all on the trailing or leading edges.
They just have lightly champfered edges along the box corners.
They're glorified Flat Plate Warp Engines with Disruptor Cannons mounted on the end in their own weapons pods.
They just look like "Traditional Wings" to a laymens eye.
But once you make "Anti-Grav tech" or "attain the tech from a race that is oppressing you" or "inherit said tech"; the species seem to forget about basic 'Flight Principles or AeroDynamics'.
However the Klingons got it, they seem to forget about a little thing like "Drag" within the Atmosphere of a Planet.
I get it, you brute force your way through the Atmosphere, but most Trek Designs make nearly 0 Considerations for "AeroDynamic Lift / Flight" principles.
Only the Saucer section of the Galaxy class has a small bit of it, that's mostly by accident, not intention.
Even then it wasn't all that efficient of a flying body.
Most of Treks StarShips / Shuttles are a "Space First" design and only use "Anti-Grav/Repulsors/Gravimetric Drives" to stay afloat in a Gravity Well or to land on a planet.
There hasn't been any real "Atmospheric Superiority" Ship/Shuttle/Fighter in Trek that was properly designed to work & take advantage of 'AeroDynamics'.
Doing so would require you to design your vessel around those principles & to use your exotic tech to make it more efficient to fly for longer within Atmosphere.
But the vast majority of Trek designed tech doesn't account for such basic principles because they just expect the vessel to brute force their way through Atmosphere and eventually go into space.
It's not like "Brute Force" hasn't worked in the past, there have been aircraft that had horrible AeroDynamics that were kludged together & "Brute Forced" their way thanks to superior engine tech.
Remember, the F-4 Phantom was nicknamed "The Flying Brick". It's Dual Engines were so over-powering over the rest of the ungainly flight characteristics of it's weak AeroDynamic design that was kludged together.
But during that era, "RAW POWER" was the game & it was all about "Top Speed". But that was a very different era in Aviation.
It's not like the current era where everything is about (Min/Max)-ing AeroDynamic Efficiency to get yourself through the air.
Granted these videos about Star Wars Fighters, but their designs aren't that different from a Star Trek style designed StarFighter as we've seen.
Any existing Star Trek designed StarFighter would most likely do equally horribly in a "Wind Tunnel".
Most Star Trek or Star Wars designed Vessels/Shuttles/Fighters would be very "Slow / Lumbering" compared to most modern day Aircraft if they were in low altitude within the Atmosphere.
If there were to try to break the Speed of Sound, they would use up ALOT of Energy / Fuel to do so within Atmosphere.
They tested the JJ-Prise's AeroDynamic efficiency, it's still crap.
Lift CoEfficient of 0.1
Drag CoEfficient of 3.53
If you hit the JJ-Prise or any (Anti-Grav / Repulsor / Gravimetric Drive) based (vessel/vehicle) with some sort of energy charge that kills it's Anti-Grav system while in Atmosphere, expect it to fall like a brick.
IMO, a VERY ACCURATE portrayal of what it would be like to fall out of the sky like a brick, only difference is that they turned on the Anti-Grav system moments before hitting the ground.
Erica basically didn't activate the Anti-Grav Drive till they were 100-115 meters above the surface, that's INCREDIBLY dangerous given how fast you're falling.
You must be a DAMN amazing pilot to know your shuttle craft and when to turn it on while free falling in the Atmosphere of a Alien Planet.
The margin for error is incredibly small since they want to be below Gorn Scanner range.
Similar to how modern Anti-Aircraft Ground Based RADAR systems have a minimum altitude deck to avoid unnecessary sensor clutter from the surface of the Planet you're on.
That said, the majority of hyperspace usage in the Sequel Trilogy does kind of make me come close to tearing my hair out. Not to mention they cross the galaxy about 3 times in 16 hours, in Episode IX (per the official maps)
Certainly the long term lore has implied 'space terrain' is always a key factor. In fact, the old 'rule' was that you could not jump in a planetary atmosphere (though comics like Dark Empire and Republic bent that rule)
Weren't there multiple times that the heroes were chased by Tie Fighters and they randomly exited HyperSpace to only barely miss a building / terrain / mountain / asteroid in the Millenium Falcon?
I thought most HyperSpace jumps depended on using safely mapped "HyperSpace Lanes".
All that (about Star Wars fighters) is technically true. Although Curtis Saxton attempted to accommodate for this in his Revenge of the Sith Cross-Sections book, by having Republic fighters use specially adjusted shield envelopes, that allowed hypersonic velocities in excess of 15,000 KPH when properly calibrated.
Could it really? The Warp Wings aren't particularly AeroDynamic 'what-so-ever' IMO!
They just look like Wings from a very shallow/simple observation.
If you turned off the Anti-Grav drive/system, I think they'd fall like a brick if in Atmosphere.
If you look at the cross section of the wings, they're a rectangular box that is forward swept with no curvature at all on the trailing or leading edges.
They just have lightly champfered edges along the box corners.
They're glorified Flat Plate Warp Engines with Disruptor Cannons mounted on the end in their own weapons pods.
Most Star Trek or Star Wars designed Vessels/Shuttles/Fighters would be very "Slow / Lumbering" compared to most modern day Aircraft if they were in low altitude within the Atmosphere.
If there were to try to break the Speed of Sound, they would use up ALOT of Energy / Fuel to do so within Atmosphere.
For older Trek, we do see in Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home that a Klingon Bird of Prey on Impulse power causes no disturbance in the air even when crossing 600 nautical miles (690 miles) in 1.5 minutes to lower altitude. Nor do we see any atmospheric disturbance when they go to warp in the atmosphere. So the look of a ship in Star Trek doesn't play a part in how it would perform in the atmosphere.
In the same vein, if the TOS Enterprise in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" wasn't damaged and operating on emergency impulse power reserves she would've had no trouble at full impulse circling around the F-104.
All that (about Star Wars fighters) is technically true. Although Curtis Saxton attempted to accommodate for this in his Revenge of the Sith Cross-Sections book, by having Republic fighters use specially adjusted shield envelopes, that allowed hypersonic velocities in excess of 15,000 KPH when properly calibrated.
For older Trek, we do see in Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home that a Klingon Bird of Prey on Impulse power causes no disturbance in the air even when crossing 600 nautical miles (690 miles) in 1.5 minutes to lower altitude.
Mach 1.0 near Earth Sea Level = 761.214433 mph, so if they haven't broken the sound barrier, I doubt they'd create much of a disturbance either. 690 mi in 1.5 min = 460 mph, so that's no where close to getting close to busting the sound barrier on Earth.
Screwed up the Units, lack of morning Coffee.
You're right, it's 27,600 mph.
Nor do we see any atmospheric disturbance when they go to warp in the atmosphere. So the look of a ship in Star Trek doesn't play a part in how it would perform in the atmosphere.
In the same vein, if the TOS Enterprise in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" wasn't damaged and operating on emergency impulse power reserves she would've had no trouble at full impulse circling around the F-104.
Impulse Power is still WAY more energy than anything the F-104 could generate, plus Anti-Grav drives should allow Omni-Directional flight manueverability.
The F-104 was a "Straight-Line Interceptor", it's manueverability was poor in the grand scheme of aircraft design in the 20th/21st century.
So they have to activate shields just to go faster in Star Wars Book cannon, makes sense.
There's no free lunch in physics.
Mach 1.0 near Earth Sea Level = 761.214433 mph, so if they haven't broken the sound barrier, I doubt they'd create much of a disturbance either.
690 mi in 1.5 min = 460 mph, so that's no where close to getting close to busting the sound barrier on Earth.
They did cross the Warp10 barrier. Thry were all salamanders. The entirety of Season 1 is the hallucinations of a thousand warp-salamanders on an out-of-control speeding starship. Beverly Crusher finally managed to deactivate the warp core with her flippers, but became seriously injured and thus took longer than everyone else to recover her humanoid form. This is why she was absent for Season 2.
To me, Warp 10 was supposed to be an impossibility, something that could never be achieved by any civilization in the Universe, including the Q. Anything short of that (Warp 9.99999999999+) would be fast enough to get to any point in the entire Universe almost instantaneously anyway.
I do think the original intent (by Roddenberry?) was to simplify the warp scale with Warp 1 being lightspeed and Warp 10 an impossibility, mainly to avoid cumbersome numbers like Warp 7415073 or Warp 38899553892158--but it wasn't that strongly enforced, and writers couldn't resist coming up with Warp 9.975 and ultimately VOY's "Threshold," which shouldn't have happened for a number of reasons.
IMO, LaForge's statement in "Where No One Has Gone Before" of the Enterprise-D surpassing Warp 10 was an exaggeration or hyperbole because space was moving around the ship faster than his instruments could measure. Otherwise, I think the ship was well within the Warp 9.99999999+ range.
To me, Warp 10 was supposed to be an impossibility, something that could never be achieved by any civilization in the Universe, including the Q. Anything short of that (Warp 9.99999999999+) would be fast enough to get to any point in the entire Universe almost instantaneously anyway.
I do think the original intent (by Roddenberry?) was to simplify the warp scale with Warp 1 being lightspeed and Warp 10 an impossibility, mainly to avoid cumbersome numbers like Warp 7415073 or Warp 38899553892158--but it wasn't that strongly enforced, and writers couldn't resist coming up with Warp 9.975 and ultimately VOY's "Threshold," which shouldn't have happened for a number of reasons.
IMO, LaForge's statement in "Where No One Has Gone Before" of the Enterprise-D surpassing Warp 10 was an exaggeration or hyperbole because space was moving around the ship faster than his instruments could measure. Otherwise, I think the ship was well within the Warp 9.99999999+ range.
And that is EXACTLY why I created my Warp Factor Scale 3.0.
The incessent need to add in more 9's after the 9.999… was incredibly silly.
That hand drawn curve to infinity was completely unnecessary & stupid.
In fact, I threw it out & ignored it for my scale.
I just let the TNG era Warp Factor formula naturally run to infinity the "Old Fashion Way by incrementing the integer #" and the "Vast Majority" of Warp Factors needed to be said on screen would've never exceed 3 digits for most types of Warp Travel.
Ideally, warp factors wouldn't have gone any higher than warp 9.8, but writers couldn't help themselves and there wasn't anyone that could reign them in.
I had no problem with warp 10 being an absolute value, but it really needed to be more strongly enforced and the writers needed to understand that warp 9 to warp 9.6 was already fast enough for storytelling purposes. The whole idea of simplifying the warp scale fell apart due to a lack of restraint, IMO--someone always wants ships to move faster and move warp factors higher, even if they're already moving fast enough on the speed-of-plot scale.
Ideally, warp factors wouldn't have gone any higher than warp 9.8, but writers couldn't help themselves and there wasn't anyone that could reign them in.
I had no problem with warp 10 being an absolute value, but it really needed to be more strongly enforced and the writers needed to understand that warp 9 to warp 9.6 was already fast enough for storytelling purposes. The whole idea of simplifying the warp scale fell apart due to a lack of restraint, IMO--someone always wants ships to move faster and move warp factors higher, even if they're already moving fast enough on the speed-of-plot scale.
They do have technical advisors that can point out what is scientifically accurate in the Star Trek Universe, but they don't have the final say on what makes it onscreen. That's the purview of executive producers.
I think the original intent was to establish reasonable limits. Warp 10 was supposed to be the ultimate velocity, infinity itself, but naturally someone came along with the idea "yeah, we can go faster than that..."
They do have technical advisors that can point out what is scientifically accurate in the Star Trek Universe, but they don't have the final say on what makes it onscreen. That's the purview of executive producers.
I think the original intent was to establish reasonable limits. Warp 10 was supposed to be the ultimate velocity, infinity itself, but naturally someone came along with the idea "yeah, we can go faster than that..."
