I wouldn't use the term "bend the knee." Bend the knee implies a gesture of fealty. That does not apply.
Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread
- Thread starter fireproof78
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Not according to George Lucas. I'll take his word over yours.
Yes according to George Lucas.
If he's thinking of Dark Empire he literally did.CorporalCaptain said:
Nope
Yep
Isn't George Lucas also the guy who put in Luke screaming during the Bespin fall for 97 Special Edition? I remember watching a video that cited that example and how sometimes, even though he created this, Lucas doesn't understand his own story, and why Luke falling silently means more than screaming.
I think the Phantom Menace demonstrated that.
I guess that walks up to another of my Controversial Star Wars Opinions, that there is no "light side" of the Force that Jedi have an equivalent relationship to as the Sith have to the Dark Side. The Jedi philosophy is about balance: life and death, warm and cold, peace and violence. They've already got everything the Dark Side has, but to a healthy degree, moderated. The Sith philosophy is, screw balance, why have vegetables and dessert when it can just be all dessert, all the time? It's a cancerous mindset, uncontrolled growth no matter how it harms the rest of the body.
That's what make the Gray Jedi idea nonsense. Normal Jedi are already "gray," their whole bit is accepting and integrating the whole spectrum of reality, so in practice, Gray Jedi means "I can choke people with my mind and shoot lightning out of my hands but I'm not, you know, a jerk about it."
I don't know what the equal and opposite of the Sith would be. Some kind of immortality cult, using the Force to prolong life beyond reason, or perhaps some kind of doctrine of pervasive selflessness, where dying for others is obligatory, maybe with some kind of ritual cannibalism or something thrown in? The more I think about it, the more I start to think it might resemble the Sith with harder-to-clean robes, horseshoe theory and all that, and you'd have to look pretty deep to tell the difference between the Light Side monsters and the Dark Side ones.
Yet some have some ill desire to embrace the Dark Side as presented in the films, which is evil in spirit, and evil personified.
Exactly. You have just stumbled over the point made several posts ago. The longer a franchise milks the concept, the more it waters down and/or eliminates that on which it was built / created for, and that is an example of creative bankruptcy. Star Wars has entered that phase.
R1 is proof that a film only "worked" because its very existence was built on the opening crawl of Star Wars, and shoehorned Evazan, Ponda Baba, fanwanking Vader and video-gamey Leia & Tarkin (along with repurposed Red Leader footage from the 1977 film, among other shameless swipes).
Sure. The general public is really talking about Andor the way they did the OT. Whatever you want to believe.
Oh, and you just certain its going to reach the same cultural impact of Stranger Things. Pure comedy!
The only reason Star Wars exists. There would be no Star Wars if the 1977 film featured random, sci-fi tropes and stories as characters. It would've died a quick death due to public disinterest, so to argue in favor of the random, truly non-SW stories exhibits a profound misunderstanding that none of your random projects have any meaning if separated from the concept about that religious / spiritual struggle for the fate of the galaxy.
Anakin was a self-aggrandizing ass who believed he was superior to every Jedi, and held all the answers for the galaxy. His inflated ego would prove him wrong, and even at after failure in the worst possible way, he still raced into brick walls face first for decades.
But there is, they speak about it in the films and in all other types of media.
Star Wars entered that phase w/o "Watering Down" the message.
George Lucas had absolute control over Eps 4/5/6 & Eps 1/2/3.
He portrayed the message that you love so much.
The Canonical Binary portrayal of "The Force".
And no matter what, it still sold less; despite having the same message, from the creator himself, George Lucas.
Eps 4/5/6 & Eps 1/2/3 were "His Babies".
Rogue 1 also proves that "Star Wars" doesn't have to be tied to the "same old thing" and that it can venture out and tell different stories instead of rehashing the same old thing.
All while pleasing the audience and showing a different side of the In-Universe lore.
You're so sure that rehashing the same old tropes from the original movie is what anybody wants to see?
It'll do it's part, bring more young kids into Star Wars.
And you're absolutely so sure of this how? You have a Time Machine to a alternate 1977 with a alternate version of Star Wars?
Yet all the extra materials have managed to do that just fine. It shows that the wider audience is more open than you think.
He didn't have a proper parent or parental figures to put him in check and hold his ego at bay.
That's what happens when you have a Force Monastic Order like "The Jedi Order" who kidnap children at a young age & brain wash them.
Then they don't raise their kids properly and expect children who have attachments to their parents to just "Accept their Death, it's the natural order of things".
They could've easily freed Anakin's mother from slavery, they had the funds & means. We're talking about freeing one extra person. That's it.
The issue with Anakin is his structural upbringing and how he was raised. He needed proper parenting.
The fact that "The Jedi Council", in their infinte wisdom didn't see the wisdom in going to free his mother from slavery, even though they could've at any point was incredibly blind / short sided.
They could've easily employed her at the Jedi Main Base and kept her as part of "Support Staff".
Then Anakin wouldn't have needed to grow up alone. All the younglings could've had a "Mother Figure" in the form of Anakin's mother.
There's a Serious Lack of basic knowledge & common sense from "The Jedi Order" on what normal people need.
We're not asking "The Jedi Council" to rescue the entire Galaxy of slaves, just one more person; especially if they intend on raising Anakin in the order.
They knew he was "Too Old" by their own words & that he was attached to his mother.
Hell Obi-wan could've easily done that himself at any time. But he didn't.
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The Jedi Council and Yoda were going to not train Anakin. Obi-wan's insistence with Qui-Gon's death shifted them into accepting despite their best judgement saying it was a bad idea.
Without that. They probably would have set Anakin home, still free. Anakin probably would have worked to buy his mother's freedom, or been adopted by the Lars family. If he managed to evade Palpatine's notice, he would be a Tatooine legend, but not a Jedi.
The Clone Wars would still happen and the Jedi would probably still fall. Maybe not as many would die without Vader, but Palpatine still had many many plans to deal with the Jedi.
Without that. They probably would have set Anakin home, still free. Anakin probably would have worked to buy his mother's freedom, or been adopted by the Lars family. If he managed to evade Palpatine's notice, he would be a Tatooine legend, but not a Jedi.
The Clone Wars would still happen and the Jedi would probably still fall. Maybe not as many would die without Vader, but Palpatine still had many many plans to deal with the Jedi.
No. The OT was a totally different animal compared to the PT.
The moment that the "Jedi Council" agreed to Qui-Gon's last wish to train Anakin, they should've rescued / freed Shmi SkyWalker and kept her Safe/Employed within the corridors of "The Jedi Order".
Where else on Coruscant would be safer than in "The Jedi Temple", surrounded by all of "The Jedi Order" before Order 66?
That would be the best solution to keep Anakin happy & grounded.
If Little Anakin got out of line, Obi Wan or the other adults could've talked to his mother, and she could set him straight for anything that he was misbehaving in or going down the wrong path.
It'd also help the rest of "The Jedi Order" to have a non-"Force Sensitive" around to help with understanding a normal person's PoV.
"The Jedi Order" were incredibly insular w/o trying to understand normal people and how they felt / behaved / thought.
Hell, it might've been Anakin who brought Mace Windu down from trying to kill Chancellor Palpatine.
They'd put the Chancellor on Trial, and things might've played out differently.
Especially if you factor in "The Clone Wars" Animated TV series and they discovered "The Chips" inside the Clones heads and got them deactivated / removed before Order 66 could've occured.
If that happened, then "The Jedi Order" & the Republic would've never fallen.
The Empire would've never risen, and things would be status quo across The Galaxy.
Having Shmii Skywalker working in the Jedi Temple might do that, but that is not what the Jedi are. A mix between monks and knights. They forgo attachments so they can make detached decisions that could effect people like their own parents without potential emotional hindrances. Anakin never learned to let go. He held on to people and things selfishly. That was part of his downfall. Would having his mother present in his life help or hinder? Such attachments are why they request children at such a young age. They aren't emotionless, but they are held up to a much higher standard because they have so much power.
But Anakin was a very special case, and they made the choice to take him in as Qui-Gon's last wish/will.
They could've made a special one-off exception for him knowing the weakness that attachment holds and how that could be a hindrance/threat in the future.
If Anakin knew his mother was safe/sound in the Jedi Temple, watching over the younglings instead of far off back on Tatooine, he could've grown up with quite a different disposition.
Especially if Padme & Shmi both help correct Anakin's behavioral issues & PoV issues.
Also, who knows what kind of effect she may have on the rest of the Jedi Order.
But it would be a very interesting "What If?" situation to explore.
Especially in Animated form since there would be no limits on what can be portrayed.
How many people do you think suffered / died at the hands of "The Empire" & "The First Order"?
How many Millions to Billions to Trillions of People?
The Body count left behind is ridiculous.
Out of the ~2 Billion people who live on Alderaan, only 60k survived by being off-world at the time of the attack by "The Death Star".
The First Order's "StarKiller Base" took out Hosnian Prime & 4x other planets in the Hosnian System, home of the Capital of the "New Republic".
The death toll was measured in "Billions", since we don't have an exact count, it's inconceivable how much damage such a despicable faction can do.
And remember, they had mass produced the "Super Death Star-like Laser" weapon to be mounted on many Star Destroyers to bend the Galaxy to their Dominion.
If you could save lives by altering time & the flow of history, I think many folks would rightly want to do so.
Especially if the cost would be rather cheap.
Like freeing Shmi SkyWalker, discovering the Chips implanted in the heads of the Clone Army.
Discovering Order66 and all the other plans that Palpatine hatched and prosecuted all his conspirators.
Alot of lives could've been saved.
Dude, it's literally tied to the open crawl from the original "STAR WARS." The whole point is to draw from the old parts. Just because it isn't "Jedi vs. Sith" stuff which is dismissed so out of hand here doesn't make it less unconnected.
Rogue One does a disservice to A New Hope so showing that different side wasn't a great addition. It had some decent stuff, and has resulted in some interesting additions, but I would not say it comes in at great acclaim as A New Hope.
There is, but they also don't do it out of kidnapping. They ask and need permission to try and hone the powers, kind of similar to the kids staying at Hogwarts or The X-Men school or whatever.
Yes, normal people need to form relationships differently than what the Jedi do, but that's kind of the point of the whole story. And given the push to go away from "Jedi vs. Sith" or "Magic mumbo jumbo" stories in Star Wars I'm not inclined to think we'll ever see the Jedi move towards the "normal people."
This is such a fundamental misunderstanding of the philosophy of Star Wars it makes my teeth itch.
The Jedi path is the path of balance. The Dark Side is the path of imbalance. A "Grey" code cannot exist, it is either redundant or deluded.
"The Dark Side is a cancer." - George Lucas
"The best path is to be half-riddled with cancer." - This nonsense.
EDITED TO ADD: Given the thread title, I guess this is the place for it at least. Ugh.
Well, that's your PoV, you're entitled to it. I enjoyed Rogue1 ALOT more myself.
Getting to see all the events that played out to what lead to the opening scenes of Ep.4 is awesome IMO.
Getting to see more background lore on the greater SW Universe is also interesting.
But what interests me, might not interest you.
Different strokes for different folks.
But are the kids ever allowed to go home to their parents, is "The Jedi Order" a Boarding School?
Or are they permanently cut-off from their parents and "The Jedi Order" takes over the parental & schooling responsibilites of all young "Force Sensitives".
From everything that I've seen/read, they literally adopt the children away and they're not really allowed to form a bond with their biological families.
It's also what is fundamentally flawed about "The Jedi Order" IMO.
I'm actually very hopeful given how Rey behaved & how she reacted.
I'm very hopeful that she might go towards the "Gray Side" of the force and potentially bring that concept from the EU into the mainstream canon.
Especially now that George Lucas doesn't have absolute control over the canon of Star Wars.
Imagine how you'd feel if future Jedi are all "Grey Jedi's" or some sort of Hybrid and there aren't anymore classic Jedi/Sith anymore.
A new era, a new world for "Force Users" would finally come about.
I'm sure that sends shivers down your spine by violating George Lucas canon & bringing in EU canon.
Given that we, who support the "Gray Jedi concept" or "Jeth /Sidai" or whatever new term you want to come up with to represent us are on the EU side and don't necessarilly agree with George Lucas & his interpretation, we're going to always be in opposition to his view on the topic.
Especially since you don't get to dictate to the audience how their art is supposed to be viewed on a personal level.
Once your creation goes out in the world, the audience is free to interpret it / understand it however they see.
Even if it clashes with the original authors intent. This is one of those cases.
The Gray Jedi following is still around, and many are supporters who followed the EU content.
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