No, I always got the impression that they met when Kirk assumed command.
The fact that the next film will contradict that is just one more thing (among many) convincing me it's a restart.
In Your Mind, Did Kirk and Spock Meet Before?
- Thread starter RookieBatman
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The fact that the next film will contradict that is just one more thing (among many) convincing me it's a restart.
I'm not sure, but I think it was never mentioned if he was married. That comes from the character background information written by DC Fontana, right? That's where Joanna, his daughter, is also mentioned.Interesting take, but McCoy was divorced, in part, due to his career in StarFleet. He seems to have been a career fleet officer for many years by the time Kirk commanded the Enterprise. I think his being older, even wiser (or at least more experienced) is why he could talk to Kirk so plainly and Kirk would listen.Not to mention McCoy was the only one who could declare him unfit for duty.
Now that's from outside the canon material. And if we venture to well-established noncanon, we have to remember that at least three novels have tackled with the issue of how, where and why Kirk and McCoy first met - each in a different way.
Canonically speaking, we don't even know that McCoy would be divorced, with daughter. But I hope that this pseudo-fact will make it on screen some day, perhaps even in the next movie.
Timo Saloniemi
There's no fact that says they didn't meet before or that they really did. It's all too vague and can be seen one way or another. It's not a fact one way or another. It's your feeling.
But the divorce and daughter are solid fanon. Though I always figured McCoy joined Starfleet after the divorce.
"Journey To Babel" established that Spock entered the Academy 18 years prior to that episode. "Deadly Years" established Kirk's age as 34 so he entered the Academy 16 years prior to that episode. (assuming he was 18). Based on that, Spock was two years ahead of Kirk at the Academy. So it's possible that they met at the Academy or at least passed each other in the hall.
Spock went pretty wild at the Academy. He liked to be called by his first name: Finnegan.
In season 2 the episode Journey to Babel, we find out that Spock entered the academy 18 yrs prior as was already stated by Nerys Myk. If the academy is a 4 yr program and you typically start at age 18, then Spock was 22 when he graduated and at age 36 when JTB happens. In the Deadly Years which was in Season 2 Kirk States he is 34. One could assume that in the episode Menagerie in season one, Kirk was 33. Per Memory Alpha under the episode synopsis, the events of the episode The Cage and the Enterprise heading to Talos occured 13 yrs prior. That would mean that Kirk was 20 yrs old during the events of The Cage. Kirk would probably still be in the Academy for another yr or 2. That would also mean that The Cage was one of Spock's first missions. It's not "unreasonable" to think because he is a Vulcan with a nice intellect that he got a post as Science Officer for the Enterprise as his first assignment. But there is also a window for Kirk to be a sophmore while Spock was a senior at the academy. It could be plausible that as Spocks last commitment to the Academy as a Senior before going on his first mission was to try and bust this wunderkind of a phenom sophmore human known as Jim Kirk as nothing more than a cheat concerning the Kobyashi Maru. Probably because no one else has ever done it and its the logical thing to do. However Kirk does not get in trouble for cheating, infact he gets rewarded, because of this he likes Spock nonetheless, he understands Spock's use of logic. Besides, no one would find out he cheated if Spock doesn't bust him. Spock then goes to the Enterprise under Pike while Kirk finishes school. Because he's Jim Kirk and the coolest badass ever and he beat the no win scenario he obviously rises to Captain alot quicker than anyone else after graduating and then serving in various positions. When Kirk gets the news he's in command of the Enterprise and is aware that Spock is on board as Science Officer he requests that Spock become first officer. Spock has 13 yrs on the ship and is familiar with it, he knows some of the crew,and because of the Kobyashi Maru, Kirk knows Spock will always do the right thing even it means going against the Captain. This is just how I picture it. But it does make it feasible for them to be at the academy together. I also imagine that Scotty, Uhura, and Sulu were already serving on the Enterprise under Pike before Kirk, for just a few years at best. If Kirk was 34 and Spock 36 in season 2, I also imagine McCoy being around 40, that puts him at 39 in season 1 and 66 in TUC when he says he has been chief medical officer for 27 years at the trial. In Generations it states that it is 78 years later so if we minus 7 yrs from the show to put us in Season 1 of TNG that leaves us with 71 years and if we add that to McCoy's age of 66 in TUC, that Makes McCoy 137 yrs old in Encounter at Farpoint. I think they state his age as different by a year or 2 but it is close enough for me. It's kinda sketchy but that is how i rationalized it. I don't think Kirk and Spock were friends at the Academy. They knew of each other and had a rivarly as any underclassmen would have with a Senior. Why does that stupid movie Drumline come to mind? Anyhow this rivarly created a working relationship that developed into a wonderful friendship as well. In my experience some of my greatest competition have become my greatest allies. But to answer the original question for this thread, until the news of this new movie, I just assumed they met when Kirk took command in WNMHGB.
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There is one other relevent line of dialogue yet to be mentioned, In Star Trek II Kirk indicates that Carol Marcus has met Spock before.
Kirk: Spock, you know Dr. Marcus
Spock: Why of course
Carol: Hello, Mr. Spock
This could have been at a time after TOS we never see, or Spock could have met her completely independently from Kirk, but it isn't incompatable with a Pre TOS meeting through Kirk either.
Kirk: Spock, you know Dr. Marcus
Spock: Why of course
Carol: Hello, Mr. Spock
This could have been at a time after TOS we never see, or Spock could have met her completely independently from Kirk, but it isn't incompatable with a Pre TOS meeting through Kirk either.
Ooh, that's an excellent observation.
I admit my supposition had been that Kirk had met Spock only on taking command of the Enterprise, or perhaps briefly before (I would expect that Star Fleet would want to be certain captains and first officers get along at least professionally; yes, they should be able to swallow any minor incompatibilities, but if you can avoid the trouble altogether why not skip it?), but that was basically informed by fan folklore of the 1980s, and splendid novels like Margaret Wander Bonanno's Strangers From The Sky. It wasn't really based on any personal evaluation of the question.
My inclination is to prefer that they'd met only on Kirk taking command, or shortly before, but that's a reflection of my preference for a Big Universe where everybody doesn't know everybody else from way back and Mister Boothby didn't advise everybody on everything.
But I think the original show was ambiguous enough -- and left enough vastly interpretable lines (for example, about Spock and Gary Mitchell having known one another for years) -- that I don't have an intellectual objection to learning Kirk was the obnoxious over-promoted student who stole first-place honors from Spock in the Reasoning With Computers course at the Academy, or something like that.
Would Kirk have had a say in who his XO would be? Like Picard chose Riker when he took command over the Enterprise. So I could see Kirk knowing Spock fleetingly from the academy and then, upon reviewing Spock's record, stick with his as his first officer.
On the show itself it always seemed to me like they didn't know each other in a deeper sense (no, not like that, pervs). But from the general interaction or examples like the chess game it seemed like they were just getting to know each other. Which, of course, doesn't mean they couldn't have met briefly beforehand.
Am I the only one who couldn't read this?
No, it all kind of blurs together for me when there are no paragraphs.
Sure. Captain's prerogative.
But don't forget - Gary Mitchell was his XO until he died.
For whatever reason, in WNMHGB they gave me the distinct impression that they hadn't been acquainted long.
Although there were lines that would make you think Spock knew about Mitchell and Kirk's history.
I didn't invent these characters and they have no "real" existence in "my mind" - they're on TV and in the movies, they belong to other people, and what those folks say happens to them is what matters.
Indeed, Kirk's line (paraphrased) "Could you act like you have a heart...we're talking about Gary" suggests that Spock knows both Kirk and Mitchell pretty well.
Indeed, Kirk's line (paraphrased) "Could you act like you have a heart...we're talking about Gary" suggests that Spock knows both Kirk and Mitchell pretty well.
Of course, Spock and Mitchell might be old colleagues even if Kirk never was part of that mix.
Possibly. Or then not. It's never stated who was the XO in "Where No Man", and it's never stated what the titles of Spock and Mitchell were, respectively.
Both wear the same rank braid, while Spock shares uniform color with Kirk but Mitchell shares his with technical folks like Scott or Kelso. Both have their hands full with the operating of the ship's instruments originally, and neither hovers behind Kirk's back, waiting to relay commands forth to the other officers.
My vote goes for Spock being the XO mainly by virtue of his shirt color... But one might vote for Mitchell based on the fact that he sits where Pike's XO sat. Or at least closer to that spot than Spock does.
Timo Saloniemi
Possibly. Or then not. It's never stated who was the XO in "Where No Man", and it's never stated what the titles of Spock and Mitchell were, respectively.
Both wear the same rank braid, while Spock shares uniform color with Kirk but Mitchell shares his with technical folks like Scott or Kelso. Both have their hands full with the operating of the ship's instruments originally, and neither hovers behind Kirk's back, waiting to relay commands forth to the other officers.
My vote goes for Spock being the XO mainly by virtue of his shirt color... But one might vote for Mitchell based on the fact that he sits where Pike's XO sat. Or at least closer to that spot than Spock does.
Timo Saloniemi
Would Kirk, in "Amok Time," say (and then, I believe, reiterate), "In all the years I've known you" if it'd been fewer than, say, seven to ten? It's reasonable to infer from "all" in that context that Kirk isn't just speaking about the five-year mission he's commanding.
Kirk addresses Pike rather familiarly, as "Chris," in "The Menagerie." Generally, one doesn't do that with a superior if you know him only casually; it's considered a rather gauche breach of protocol and propriety.
Here's a question that arises on occasion: Could he have served as Pike's XO for a time before taking command of Enterprise? I ask because I don't recall if there's anything in the canon concerning his assignments pre-Enterprise that precludes it.
A few months as the heir apparent being groomed by an experienced commander would seem a minimal requirement for the center seat on a Federation starship, no matter how hot a shot Kirk was.
Kirk addresses Pike rather familiarly, as "Chris," in "The Menagerie." Generally, one doesn't do that with a superior if you know him only casually; it's considered a rather gauche breach of protocol and propriety.
Here's a question that arises on occasion: Could he have served as Pike's XO for a time before taking command of Enterprise? I ask because I don't recall if there's anything in the canon concerning his assignments pre-Enterprise that precludes it.
A few months as the heir apparent being groomed by an experienced commander would seem a minimal requirement for the center seat on a Federation starship, no matter how hot a shot Kirk was.
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