I can understand it... Even if sometimes I have hard time believe such people are interested in Star Trek. After all, Star Trek i about keeping an open mind to things... alien to us.
Kes Returns - what episode would you have made?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
Star Trek fans come from all walks of life and ideologies.
Okay... You're getting fired up. Time to step away for a bit I think.
Not so much off limits as it was just getting to the point that nearly every thread was getting some injection of the Kim not getting promoted topic for a time. Your point had been made and there's not going to be any changing of your opinion on the matter. Just like Lynx here with Kes. At some point we have to move on from banging that drum or we get caught in a temporal causality loop to technobabble this up. The drum can get banged sometimes though.
They certainly do.
I didn't really have issue with the moderators asking me not to inject the topic into other conversations... I was a moderator elsewhere, and sometimes I had to ask people to stay on topic. But then they closed the topic dedicated to the subject.
Ye, maybe it's not logical but I just didn't like her when she she returned.
Re-read what I posted. I expressed my opinion that the character of Kes was poorly conceived and boring, and that the overall narrative along with the development of another character were better served by her elimination. There was nothing personal or hateful in what I wrote about a fictional character on a science-fantasy TV show.
That you chose to take my words as some sort of personal insult when you were never mentioned at all is your problem, not mine.
I never took it as any personal insult.
But I think that your comments were a bit nasty, to say the least.
Well, I'm looking for both.
But I just can't find any of it in Star Trek nowadays.
And in some cases, the destruction of certain characters and even planets have been so incredible stupid, unnecssary and downright deructive that they should be corrected.
Yes, they are narrow-minded in their thinking which your example about the Vulcans prove.
As for those in charge coming up with excuses or being to focused on Seven to write about kes, there is a third option. They got orders to all of a sudden being unable to write for Kes.
I find it hard to understand your opinion in that case. Not to mention that it's terribly wrong.
I mean, we had fantastic episodes with Kes, like Cold Fire, Persistence of Vision and Warlord. There were also other episodes like Caretaker, The Swarm and others too where Kes were prominent when it came to solving difficult situations.
I can point out characters in other series, characters who actually were good but not as prominent as Kes when it came to solve difficult problems, however they are characters I actually like and I wouldn't want to dump them.
I can see no reason for dumping Harry Kim either. They should have dumped the writers who weren't doing their jobs. Voyager had great characters, none of them should have been dumped.
To be honest, it would have been better if they hadn't brought back Kes at all when all they camed up with was that piece of s**t episode in season 6.
As I see it, they had two options:
1. They could have chose to come upwith a good Kes episode at the end of the series in which she had joined the crew again.
2. They couldd have chose to not bring her back at all.
What they did was chose a third option in which they destroyed the character and deliberately insulted the fasn of the character who wanted her back. Not a nice thing to do.
Yes, but would it have been the same reaction if a 90-year old Spock or Tuvok would have had a relationship with a 20 year old Human crew member.
Not to mention that the nine-year lifespan was a stupidity which should never have been done or corrected in some way during the first seasons.
You're right about that.Okay... You're getting fired up. Time to step away for a bit I think.
Not so much off limits as it was just getting to the point that nearly every thread was getting some injection of the Kim not getting promoted topic for a time. Your point had been made and there's not going to be any changing of your opinion on the matter. Just like Lynx here with Kes. At some point we have to move on from banging that drum or we get caught in a temporal causality loop to technobabble this up. The drum can get banged sometimes though.
They certainly do.
But unfortunately, I have always got the ability to lower myself down to the level as the people I discuss with.
Probably not a good ability and I'm trying my best to avoid it even if it is very difficult sometimes.
Kes was a good example of writers not doing their job, at least in the case with the crap episode in season 6.
In fact, she did have certain powers already back in season 2 and handled them well, except for the time when she was close to kill Tuvok. But that was an accident to which Tanis was most to blame.
By the way, it looks like some posters have misunderstood the purpose of this thread.
It was about Kes returns-what episode would you have made.
Not about some hate campaign against the character.
So a lot of comments here are really off-topic.
By the way, what has happened to Admiral Jean Luc Picard who started the thread?
Has he been demoted or suspended from duty?
Last edited:
You really don’t understand what an opinion is, do you?
No matter how many times you try to ram it down people’s throats, many simply don’t see Kes as a good character.
If opinions can be wrong, could it not possibly be the case that your opinion is wrong?
I mean, you seem to be the #1 member of the I Love Kes Fan Club, but it's not exactly a crowded club.
I'd certainly wager that there's more people glad, or at least indifferent, that the character was nixed in favor of Jeri Ryan.
So I guess your opinion is wrong.
People can consider opinions of others wrong. I mean, there are things that are based on that.
I must add, Lynx is not alone, even if I disagree with him on some things (such as I think Fury is bad, but not the worst episode ever made, or entirely unsalvageable).
I must add, it really seems that all this Kes hate is a relatively new thing. When I read materials made during original Voyager run, people generally like Kes there (even fans of Seven of Nine).
I must add, Lynx is not alone, even if I disagree with him on some things (such as I think Fury is bad, but not the worst episode ever made, or entirely unsalvageable).
I must add, it really seems that all this Kes hate is a relatively new thing. When I read materials made during original Voyager run, people generally like Kes there (even fans of Seven of Nine).
Nothing about my critique of the character Kes or the way the writers treated her was hateful, insulting, or "nasty." Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn't make it so.
But thank you for walking back your initial opinion of my opinions.
How is my opinion on Kes wrong? She did nothing for me, starting with “Caretaker” in January of 1995. I also knew that the nine year life lifespan with a 50 year old hedgehog boyfriend wasn’t going to be treated kindly.
You can have your opionins. I just don't agree with them.
Disagreeing with an opinion is far different than calling it “terribly wrong”.
Dislike of Kes as a character isn't new at all, even in the slightest, though it seems to be new to you. From the very first story she appeared in back in, she simply didn't work for me for all the reasons I, @BillJ, and the others have already covered.
Just because you disagree with an opinion does not make it wrong. I disagree with many of your opinions, but I have yet to declare one of them objectively wrong.
I think it's true that Kes wasn't used effectively a lot of the time. Yet I think she had potential.
I genuinely think that Warlord was a good episode. One of the best in the early seasons of Voyager. Cold Fire was also pretty good. Together those episodes could have pointed towards an interesting arc for the character and towards types of stories we hadn't really seen in Star Trek.
Whether there would have been room for this and Seven's arc is debatable, I suppose (though with 20+ episodes per season I'd say yes) And while I agree that Seven was the stronger character, I do think we were robbed of Seven-Kes interactions, which could have been adorable and added some meaningfull friendship between women which Berman Star Trek sorely lacked. Also she was 50% of the medical staff.
I genuinely think that Warlord was a good episode. One of the best in the early seasons of Voyager. Cold Fire was also pretty good. Together those episodes could have pointed towards an interesting arc for the character and towards types of stories we hadn't really seen in Star Trek.
Whether there would have been room for this and Seven's arc is debatable, I suppose (though with 20+ episodes per season I'd say yes) And while I agree that Seven was the stronger character, I do think we were robbed of Seven-Kes interactions, which could have been adorable and added some meaningfull friendship between women which Berman Star Trek sorely lacked. Also she was 50% of the medical staff.
Last edited:
Well, there were three threads about Kes and Jennifer Lien all started around the same time. Inevitably with Kes threads the discussion all kind of goes down this path. You're correct in that this particular thread is for discussion about what you would have done differently than TPTB did with Kes' return. We should get back to that and move the Kes and Seven discussion here.
