It comes up every now and then.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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I think it depends. I think Beyond does it well but Generations and Picard Season 3 doesn't because we don't get the characters reaction. ST:III lingers with the crew, let's us feel their pain, acknowledge the distress. Beyond primarily lingers with Kirk and the pain he feels as he is helpless as the ship crashes.
I mean, ships don't always need to be treated as characters. I think it depends on the approach of the production choices.
Well said!
I agree with the first part fully. Well said.
The second part... when dealing with the (permanent) destruction of a ship, it should be treated as a character, particularly when some or all of the other characters (Kirk and Scotty, for example) have a deep love of their ship.
While I am sure I am in the minority of those who don't regard a ship as a character, I think it can be written through the viewpoint of the characters and convey the same sense of tragic loss.
Well said. But even Star Trek 3 let’s you know it’s hitting Kirk the hardest… “My God Bones, what have I done”
I would say Generations also suffers from the lack of Picard. The fact that he was elsewhere at the demise of his ship hurts those scenes I think.
If one starship in the entire franchise, in my eyes, has earned its own character status, it was the NCC-1701. TOS, TAS and the first three movies made her a living, breathing embodiment of the Star Trek franchise.
Damn right.
Really true about Generations. Both the Enterprise-D and KIRK, for goodness sake, die and I never felt a thing when watching that film. Somehow it just didn’t capture me emotionally other than to make me feel kind of depressed when I left the cinema/movie theatre. I don’t know quite what went wrong with that film.
That's a good point. But it's got the little girl losing her teddy-bear. That kills me every time.
I will stand up for Beyond. For one thing, I HATE THAT SHIP. So for it to affect me at all is an achievement. But it does affect me. A lot. (Chis Pine!)
Also, it's a fight. It's not over in... (checks Star Trek III) four minutes. (That's from "Computer..." to "...fighting chance to live.") In Beyond you feel the Enterprise slipping away.
There is also the added emotion of going back to the crashed ship.
Actually, further points to Generations for the last scene of everybody having to dig things out of their destroyed home. That aspect is never a part of Beyond (despite the opening scenes of Beyond showing a day to day life on the Enterprise). And the Star Trek III Enterprise was never really anyone's home.
Generations is really the only movie to have destroyed THE Enterprise. As much as I adore the refit it is not the ship from TOS and it wasn't where Our Heroes spent years of their lives and we along with them. We never spent that much time with the JJ-prise (and... HATE).
But the ship that goes down in Generations is literally Our Ship from Encounter at Farpoint. Same crew, same sets, (mostly) same uniforms.
Picard may not have been there. But we were. (Damn, I should be saving all this for next week!)
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I was always most drawn to the refit design (which was really the TOS-E with a new skin), but I'm definitely in the ship-is-a-character camp.
My issue with the JJ-Prise is they got caught in Krall's trap so easily by believing random info from a stranger and putting the entire crew of the USS Enterprise in danger.
Seriously, they don't send probes anymore before you send out a entire friggin StarShip?
Also, StarFleet doesn't seriously teach Captain's & Crew on how to fight mass swarms and what was the best tactic to do so if caught?
We have simulators to train crews on fighting nearly every conceivable scenario IRL, that's why you prepare crews long before you encounter these scenarios.
Christopher Pine's James T. Kirk wasting the precious few seconds of the initial encounter shooting the Swarm was pointless.
He didn't listen to his first officer, Spock; who was correct in his assessment that fighting a Swarm with the way Kirk was doing was stupid and going to result in a bad end, which it did.
He should've engaged in a running battle and headed back into the Super Dense Asteroid Field to escape, but he wasted too much time trying to slug it out.
He didn't even try running and Warping away at high speed immediately, he sat there and slugged it out.
That's poor leadership & inadequate training from StarFleet when it could've prepared them for such things.
Seriously, they don't send probes anymore before you send out a entire friggin StarShip?
Also, StarFleet doesn't seriously teach Captain's & Crew on how to fight mass swarms and what was the best tactic to do so if caught?
We have simulators to train crews on fighting nearly every conceivable scenario IRL, that's why you prepare crews long before you encounter these scenarios.
Christopher Pine's James T. Kirk wasting the precious few seconds of the initial encounter shooting the Swarm was pointless.
He didn't listen to his first officer, Spock; who was correct in his assessment that fighting a Swarm with the way Kirk was doing was stupid and going to result in a bad end, which it did.
He should've engaged in a running battle and headed back into the Super Dense Asteroid Field to escape, but he wasted too much time trying to slug it out.
He didn't even try running and Warping away at high speed immediately, he sat there and slugged it out.
That's poor leadership & inadequate training from StarFleet when it could've prepared them for such things.
Probes crashed due to the difficulty of navigating the local space.
That's like half the plots of Star Trek.
Isn't there a line early in the movie about Federation deep space probes failing or losing contact after going into the Gagarin Radiation Belt, where the U.S.S. Franklin disappeared in 2164? Altamid is in the Gagarin Radiation Belt so maybe probes were impractical during the Enterprise's approach, and poor leadership and stupid decisions would eliminate a whole lot of episodes and films from the franchise if we had to hold the main characters accountable for being fools and using poor command judgment.
Not the least of which would be TWOK.
Poor leadership decisions...
Not the least of which be "Rascals".
Not the least of which be "Rascals".
How about a REEEEALLY slow WEB of some kind?
Yeah, they sent Enterprise because she had the most advanced sensor suite in the fleet. Of course, it turned out the probes were being captured and hacked by Krall.
See? There you go. In-universe reasoning. Thanks!
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