Does Star Trek support Ancient Astronaut theory

[Christopher]

the vulcans aren't the real problem as it can be explained

• their real name sounds similar and morphed into vulcans (their home planet V'Ulc would do the trick nicely)

See the suggestion I edited into my previous post while you were posting this. I'll repeat:

Alternatively, one possibility is that Human astronomers had already discovered an exoplanet around 40 Eridani and named it Vulcan for whatever reason, so when inhabitants of that planet showed up, they were called the Vulcans by default and it stuck. After all, given how rapidly exoplanet discoveries are happening now, it's very likely that if 40 Eri does have planets, we'll find them well before 2063.

• they were here before they had that 'not before warp' rule and had a compound on a certain island off sicily.

Now you're just being ridiculous. The island Vulcano was named that because the Romans believed its volcano to be the chimney of the god Vulcan's workshop (or chose to characterize it that way as a metaphor). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcano

... but the romulans (down to using roman ranks) are just nuts.

While Paul Schneider clearly intended them to be "Space Romans," we can assume that the rank titles we hear are English translations. TNG established a Romulan rank called uhlan, supporting the idea that they have indigenous names for their own ranks.

 

[at Quark's]

Alternatively, one possibility is that Human astronomers had already discovered an exoplanet around 40 Eridani and named it Vulcan for whatever reason, so when inhabitants of that planet showed up, they were called the Vulcans by default and it stuck. After all, given how rapidly exoplanet discoveries are happening now, it's very likely that if 40 Eri does have planets, we'll find them well before 2063.

Even if that happened, I think they'd simply get the far more poetic '40 Eridani b/c/d ..' etc designation in that case. One of those planets getting a proper name such as 'Vulcan' would only happen (I think) if there were strong indications the planet hosted advanced life, or some such thing.

the vulcans aren't the real problem as it can be explained

• (their home planet V'Ulc would do the trick nicely)

Perhaps I should work on learning to pronounce it the 'proper' way (i.e. V'Ulcans complete with glottal stop or some such thing)?

 

[oberth]

uhlan

that's the french spelling of ulan - a lancer

 

[BillJ]

I like the idea that they weren't "Vulcans", at first. That there was some period of time where there were different designations for them floating around.

Much like we had "Vulcanian" early in TOS.

 

[Christopher]

Even if that happened, I think they'd simply get the far more poetic '40 Eridani b/c/d ..' etc designation in that case. One of those planets getting a proper name such as 'Vulcan' would only happen (I think) if there were strong indications the planet hosted advanced life, or some such thing.

That isn't the case. The IAU has already given proper names to numerous extrasolar planets and their stars:

List of proper names of exoplanets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[oberth]

That isn't the case. The IAU has already given proper names to numerous extrasolar planets and their stars:

List of proper names of exoplanets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

no vulcan

 

[BillJ]

That isn't the case. The IAU has already given proper names to numerous extrasolar planets and their stars:

List of proper names of exoplanets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Doesn’t mean things can’t change over the next century or more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

i would go with their looks -> back to the ears again

Seems a bit derogatory and racist to base a name on a species appearance. Will I'm sure there are examples for history where such names have caught on and might even still be in use, I doubt we'd do that today or in the 2060s.

The Vulcans have been observing Earth for Centuries, including our languages. (Carbon Creek) When they land they'll be saying in perfect English "Hello, we are the Vulcans". That statement will be reported and spread world wide. So I don't see how any confusion about the name or any made up names would come into play. At best it might be garbled a bit depending how well humans can wrap their tongues around it,

 

[oberth]

When they land they'll be saying in perfect English "Hello, we are the Vulcans".

do they? i think he said 'live long and prosper'

 

[BillJ]

do they? i think he said 'live long and prosper'

We don’t see the entirety of the conversation.

 

[oberth]

We don’t see the entirety of the conversation.

methinks in the mirror universe the next sentence is 'board that ship'

 

[BillJ]

methinks in the mirror universe the next sentence is 'board that ship'

Iunno? Looks like Cochrane shot them in “In a Mirror, Darkly”.

 

[Nerys Myk]

do they? i think he said 'live long and prosper'

I'm sure the conversation was longer than one sentence.

 

[oberth]

Iunno? Looks like Cochrane shot them in “In a Mirror, Darkly”.

with a super shorty and then he yells 'board that ship'

 

[Christopher]

no vulcan

Not yet, but no exoplanet around 40 Eri has been found yet. If one is, it's a cinch that people will want to name it Vulcan. Of course, within the Trek universe, where Trek doesn't exist as a fictional franchise, they'd need some other reason to call it that.

The Vulcans have been observing Earth for Centuries, including our languages. (Carbon Creek) When they land they'll be saying in perfect English "Hello, we are the Vulcans". That statement will be reported and spread world wide. So I don't see how any confusion about the name or any made up names would come into play. At best it might be garbled a bit depending how well humans can wrap their tongues around it,

Again, that runs up against the fact that real-life humans constantly coin their own names for other nationalities, like "German" for the Deutsch, or at least use variants of their own names, like how Japanese people would call me an Amerikajin instead of an American. (Although America is often called Beikoku in Japan.) So just because the Vulcans introduced themselves by their own name doesn't preclude humans coining a different name for them anyway.

According to "This Side of Paradise" and "Journey to Babel," Sarek and Spock's family name is difficult for humans to pronounce. It's possible that the Vulcans' name for their species is similarly hard to pronounce (although that's hard to credit given that none of the spoken Vulcan we've heard in Trek is all that hard to say).

If, indeed, it is something that sounds similar to "Vulcan" like Ti'Valka'ain, it plausible that we'd say "Vulcan" as an approximation.

 

[BillJ]

with a super shorty and then he yells 'board that ship'

Ah, I thought you were referencing the Eridani.

 

[at Quark's]

That isn't the case. The IAU has already given proper names to numerous extrasolar planets and their stars:

List of proper names of exoplanets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting, I didn't know that.

Regardless, I don't think they will keep that up indefinitely. I imagine the practice will cease sooner or later, as there simply will be far too many exoplanets to give each of them a proper name. Perhaps they'll decide (after a certain point) on naming every known exoplanet within a 100 LY radius or so (and keep the names that already have been handed out for exoplanets further away than that).

(I don't see the use of naming them anyway - besides from adding some flavor to a dry catalogue name or honoring someone that is).

 

[Nerys Myk]

Again, that runs up against the fact that real-life humans constantly coin their own names for other nationalities, like "German" for the Deutsch, or at least use variants of their own names, like how Japanese people would call me an Amerikajin instead of an American. (Although America is often called Beikoku in Japan.) So just because the Vulcans introduced themselves by their own name doesn't preclude humans coining a different name for them anyway.

Yes, but those names can come from "outside" sources. We get "German" from the Romans. Probably via Latin's influence. And even it took a while to "settle". Wiki has it first attested in 1520 and slowly replacing Almain, Alman and Dutch. Would the Britons call them "Germans"? (Saxon or Sais and Saeson like the Welsh most likely). "Amerkajin" sounds like a Japanese-ification of America, as I mentioned Vulcan could be. Beikoku if my quick search is correct, is an abbreviation of "America" reducing it to "me".

According to "This Side of Paradise" and "Journey to Babel," Sarek and Spock's family name is difficult for humans to pronounce. It's possible that the Vulcans' name for their species is similarly hard to pronounce (although that's hard to credit given that none of the spoken Vulcan we've heard in Trek is all that hard to say).

If, indeed, it is something that sounds similar to "Vulcan" like Ti'Valka'ain, it plausible that we'd say "Vulcan" as an approximation.

Which was the point of my last sentence.

 

[Christopher]

Regardless, I don't think they will keep that up indefinitely. I imagine the practice will cease sooner or later, as there simply will be far too many exoplanets to give each of them a proper name. Perhaps they'll decide (after a certain point) on naming every known exoplanet within a 100 LY radius or so (and keep the names that already have been handed out for exoplanets further away than that).

That particular IAU policy might end, but I can't imagine humans in general ever giving up on naming things. (Also, 40 Eridani is only 16 or so light years away.)

(I don't see the use of naming them anyway - besides from adding some flavor to a dry catalogue name or honoring someone that is).

Why not? I think it's cool. It can help get people more interested in astronomy, which is something I think is sorely needed. We're going to keep learning more and more about these exoplanets, probably including the discovery of life on some of them, so there's going to be a lot to say about them over the decades and centuries to come. It makes perfect sense to name them, for the same reason we name rivers and mountains and islands. Giving them names reminds us that these are actual places, as real as any place on Earth.

Besides, it stands to reason that there's a huge amount of overlap between astronomers/astrophysicists and science fiction fans. They grew up with fiction that gave names to exoplanets, and now that we have real, honest-to-Galileo exoplanets, they get to name them. Who wouldn't want that?

Yes, but those names can come from "outside" sources.

Of course, but that doesn't preclude them coming from inside sources, so I don't see how it refutes the possibility that humans could use the term "Vulcan" despite Vulcans having a distinct name for themselves. The goal here should not be to pick one option and shoot down all the rest arbitrarily; it should be to open our minds to every possible explanation. After all, it's imaginary, so there is no "correct" answer.

 

[B.J.]

So? Why assume that whatever tentative name they use to start with will still be in use decades later? Usages change. For instance, over a year passed between the first news coverage of AIDS and the coinage of that name for the syndrome. The term "UFO" was coined by the Air Force in 1947, but public vernacular favored "flying disc" or "flying saucer" well into the '50s. The visual effect we call "morphing" was introduced in 1986 but wasn't consistently called that until years later; I remember behind-the-scenes materials about the effect in Willow (1988) calling it "splining" after the mathematical principle it was based on.

"Information Super Highway". I hated that term, glad it died quickly.