Woke regarding film/TV: is it a big deal?

[fireproof78]

Please, tell me you are joking.

No.

 

[UssGlenn]

Frozen Empire: I haven't seen it yet, but it looks awesome from the trailers and clips on YouTube.

Frozen Empire is less then the sum of its parts, unfortunately. But for the ironic reason that it has too many good ideas, so we don't have time to explore any of them properly. Really should have been an 8 episode tv show.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Frozen Empire is less then the sum of its parts, unfortunately. But for the ironic reason that it has too many good ideas, so we don't have time to explore any of them properly. Really should have been an 8 episode tv show.

I am glad it's not a series, not everything needs to be a series today. I heard the film had too many characters?

 

[UssGlenn]

I am glad it's not a series, not everything needs to be a series today. I heard the film had too many characters?

Yeah, some characters should have been eliminated and their role in the story merged. And there were simply too many separate plot points, but each one is a good idea on its own. Like the possessor ghost, that could have been a whole episode. It possessed several things but did Ecto 1 for like 30 seconds, what a waste of potential.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Yeah, some characters should have been eliminated and their role in the story merged. And there were simply too many separate plot points, but each one is a good idea on its own. Like the possessor ghost, that could have been a whole episode. It possessed several things but did Ecto 1 for like 30 seconds, what a waste of potential.

The four kids, the mom, and the teacher from Afterlife, did they all get good screen time in Frozen Empire?

 

[UssGlenn]

Trevor gets the short end of the stick. All he does is chase Slimer around in a couple scenes.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Trevor gets the short end of the stick. All he does is chase Slimer around in a couple scenes.

The brother, right? He was central to the first movie as much as Phoebe. Did they really just kick him to the sidelines to play firehouse?

 

[UssGlenn]

the only other thing he does is complain that they won't let him drive the ecto-1 even though he is 18. He gets to drive it at the end, so that's his "character arc".

 

[JD]

This time around, she's a fully 3D character. Dr. Smith wasn't woke, she is awesome in the Netflix show.

To the people who actually use the term woke, just making her a woman this time is "too woke".

#2 I feel like it's something that should at least make it into the advertising. This is one of those things that's always going to divide the audience. You've got lots of people who may have gay friends, gay coworkers, maybe even gay relatives to, but just don't want to watch it on TV.

They actually did promote the fact that it had one of the Disney's first major gay characters in it quite a bit. And they shouldn't have to go out of their way to appease the bigots, if they don't like gay people in their movies, that they're problem.

Why doesn't matter, but the fact is that the divide will continue to exist. Imagine you watch a trailer for a western, and you get all excited. 10 minutes in, it's an outer space movie. You'd feel mislead, wouldn't you? Same idea. It's not about gay good or gay bad, but about movie-watching preferences.

If it helps, a gay or lesbian person might not want to watch "straight" fiction. Representing both sides of the coin and all.

Having a gay character in a movie isn't going to suddenly change the genre of a movie, it's just one small aspect of the movie.
I don't think I've ever come across a gay person who won't watch movies with straight characters in them. That's pretty much just a thing that homophobes do.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

To the people who actually use the term woke, just making her a woman this time is "too woke".

They actually did promote the fact that it had one of the Disney's first major gay characters in it quite a bit. And they shouldn't have to go out of their way to appease the bigots, if they don't like gay people in their movies, that they're problem.

Having a gay character in a movie isn't going to suddenly change the genre of a movie, it's just one small aspect of the movie.
I don't think I've ever come across a gay person who won't watch movies with straight characters in them. That's pretty much just a thing that homophobes do.

#1 True, and I don't like it.

#2 A lot of people think homosexuality is lifestyle and thus object to it on that principle. Agree or disagree, does that make sense? It's not the same thing as someone being black or white, tall or short, lean or obese.

#3 I agree, a gay character doesn't suddenly = gay movie. Now, if it's gay romance, then it's a gay movie.

#4 I think I've had one friend who was gay and didn't want to see straight romance or at least didn't like it. Straight guy dodging gay romance, gay guy dodging straight romance, is that any different than a dude dodging romance plots in general? It's preference at the end of the day.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

the only other thing he does is complain that they won't let him drive the ecto-1 even though he is 18. He gets to drive it at the end, so that's his "character arc".

They did the actor dirty.

 

[Firebird]

If you’re more concerned about whether a piece of media is “too woke,” you have deeper and far more fundamental issues than the entertainment you intake. To even approach anything with the point of view of “woke” as pejorative displays a rather stunted worldview.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

Pretty difficult to dodge straight romance. It's almost everywhere. lol

I must say as a gay dude I'm not a fan of movie studios screaming "LOOK LOOK WE HAVE A GAY CHARACTER HERE". This, while probably well-intended in some way, only emphasizes the whole "it's still weird and different to have a gay character in a movie" thing. Yes, on one hand it's nice to have representation, but on the other I'd much rather not have a massive fuss about it because it emphasizes that we're still not fully accepted and that it's still weird and different to have gay character in a movie. (Am I making sense? I'm half asleep. lol)

As for the whole "woke" thing... ugh. I stop listening the second someone screams about something being "omg woke". Criticism is fine, but I wish they would base it on something other than barely disguised "I don't want to see people of color, gay people, etc in my white cishet dude stuff". Or at least they should be honest and just SAY that they don't want to see this instead of going on elaborated Youtube rants about things being "woke".

 

[Phoenix219]

in general, the "anti-woke" crowd wants well written stories with characters first, box-checking second, and to stop corrupting pre-existing characters with race and gender swapping and just create a new character. We have all loved diverse characters and strong women since the 70s. They just don't like the pandering. The amount of redhaired girls that have been turned into black females is absolutely astounding at this point. Its the preachiness and one-way-is-the-only-right-way that is front and center yet still tacked on, that is so off putting. Writers that are really activists, and have no idea how to plot a story or do a character arc. The accusations that people just don't want to see other races is laughable and is the response from people that don't quite understand what the complaints are actually about.

Critical Drinker is great. Just listen to him. lol.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I think I'm going to pass on listening to Critical Drinker.

But think this shows how grouping issues together under the word 'woke' is unhelpful. Everyone wants well written stories with good characters, so we're all united on that point, Team Woke and Team Anti-woke. No one wants writers who can't come up with a story arc, I've never met anyone who appreciated movies being overly preachy. Everyone's on the same side so far.

Is race and gender swapping 'woke'? Personally I'm on the side of keeping enduring and iconic characters pretty much the same if they're supposed to be the same person, whether they're Batman or Blade, but I don't think I'm being 'anti-woke' to say that. Give us more Kamala Khan, Miles Morales and Beckett Mariner, keep Barbara Gordon, Peter Parker and James T. Kirk the same. Then keep Kamala, Miles and Beckett the same for future generations. If studios didn't continually recycle old IPs this wouldn't even be an issue, for anyone.

Also, there's nothing unusual about writers having something to say or wanting to make a difference; stories often should be about something. RoboCop preaches about big corporations, Jaws shows how people can put business above human life, Star Trek 4 tells people to save the whales, Jurassic Park has a message about scientists leaping before they look, Starship Troopers is a satire about fascism, the first Rambo movie is about war veterans being abandoned by their country and so on. If the writing is putting people off with its preachiness, then it's just bad writing.

 

[Phoenix219]

I think I'm going to pass on listening to Critical Drinker.

there are a number of reasons why i made the suggestion.

he's an actual writer himself, so its educated criticism with a humour slant.

he has super serious discussion pieces, episodes about the trainwrecks that can go on behind the scenes, all sorts of breakdowns that are very worth the time. his movie reviews go through the plot, so the criticisms are very specific, and not just generic "woke" complaints. out of all the reviewers and analysts, his is the one that most accurately points out where the issues lie, in my opinion, and he's kind of hilarious too.

 

[valkyrie013]

Its not "Woke" to want a good story. Or be irritated if a characters gender or race has been changed "For no good reason" just to check off a diversity check mark.

I honestly want More diversity.. Even in star trek, want some Mongolians, or Laotions or Thai or German people in there.. Not just White and black and asian.. Get Everyone in there!

 

[BillJ]

#2 A lot of people think homosexuality is lifestyle and thus object to it on that principle. Agree or disagree, does that make sense? It's not the same thing as someone being black or white, tall or short, lean or obese.

As a straight male…

Spoiler: People

I have never once thought about having sex with another man. Just not the wired that way. I can just respect that others are wired differently. And, gay romance doesn’t bother me any more than the thousands of straight romances that litter fiction.

I doubt very many people take on same sex lovers and partners for shits and giggles.

…some people just need to grow up and realize that the world isn’t just about them.

 

[Michael]

You're right to say that LGBTQ+ doesn't fit as a "genre" in the context of film/TV, but it can be useful in the context of finding movies or series on a streaming platform.

If anything, I get frustrated that streamers only have a couple of genres and don't break it down further.

Cool. But that’s not what this was about. This wasn’t about making it easier for gay people to find movies about gay issues. This was about people actively avoiding to watch a movie just because it features a gay character — not because it’s about gay issues etc. And that, I’m sorry, is fucking stupid and backwards.

#2 A lot of people think homosexuality is lifestyle and thus object to it on that principle. Agree or disagree, does that make sense? It's not the same thing as someone being black or white, tall or short, lean or obese.

Calling it a “lifestyle” is wrong, though, and is in fact directly from the homophobic vocabulary. It implies that it’s a choice, like someone picking one ice cream flavor over another, when it’s certainly not that. Thinking like that leads to harmful and inhumane practices like “conversion therapy” and it also makes it seem like all homosexual people are uniform in the way they lead their lives, when in fact there’s great diversity in the homosexual community.

The scientific consensus is that homosexuality is a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental factors. So if you absolutely must make a comparison to all those other things you’re naming, it’s actually not all that different from being tall or short etc. Everyone would laugh at the stupidity and bigotry of a person not wanting to watch a movie because it features tall people. That’s how I view people having a preference over the media they consuming featuring LGBTQ+ characters.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

The amount of redhaired girls that have been turned into black females is absolutely astounding at this point.

Is this comment a generic variation of the red-headed-stepchild syndrome? As I enjoy various female redheads, do you have five notable recent examples of this?