Woke regarding film/TV: is it a big deal?

[Ray Hardgrit]

Love the LIS Netflix remake. I actually like the GB reboot with the women. I think the movie failed for 3 simple reasons. First, fans wanted part 3 with the original cast, not a remake. Second, the director just doesn't get GB, should have hired a different director. Third, it was a parody of a dark comedy, that doesn't work. I like it for what it was trying to be.

Personally, when I learned that Ghostbusters was a remake and not a continuation my interest started evaporating, especially as its success would likely kill any chance of a continuation dead. Then I learned that it had a very different style of comedy to the original and wasn't very good, so I decided to skip it. Nothing to do with the female cast.

I didn't watch the next two Ghostbusters films either, but they're on my 'to-do' list. I'll get around to them eventually!

 

[theenglish]

The problem with the term "woke" is that, although it was originally used by Black Americans to refer to be "woke" to the cause of civil liberties and anti-racism in America, but that was intentionally co-opted by far right groups to be used as a slur against what is perceived as leftist culture. It was then taken up, apparently with question, by those on both the social left and social right. In its modern usage, it came into the conversation intentionally almost as slogans that an ad company uses which then "catch on". It did not develop organically the way most language does. The right wants it to be used this way to promote a racist agenda. By using the term in whatever context, we fall into that trap. I have never heard someone use this term as a pejorative that had good intentions.

I have known about the origins of the term for a while, but I did not realize how nefariously it was injected into modern language, nor did I understand how offensive it was for Black Americans to hear it used, even by liberals, out of its current context until recently. My current understanding actually grew from discussions on this very board and by posts by one individual in particular. I am sure I still have a long way to go in my learning on this issue--but that is why I quoted The Princess Bride in my initial post.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Personally, when I learned that Ghostbusters was a remake and not a continuation my interest started evaporating, especially as its success would likely kill any chance of a continuation dead. Then I learned that it had a very different style of comedy to the original and wasn't very good, so I decided to skip it. Nothing to do with the female cast.

I didn't watch the next two Ghostbusters films either, but they're on my 'to-do' list. I'll get around to them eventually!

I boycotted the movie, not because it looked bad, but because I wanted Part 3, not a reboot. When Afterlife came out, I was like: OK cool, I can watch that reboot with the girls now. I presume you've seen both 80's GB films?

Answer the Call: It plays out like a 2-hour SNL skit, to be honest. If you allow it to be that and just embrace it as a stand-alone farce, it's actually pretty entertaining. If you can't shake loose the original 2 films, definitely pass on this one.

Afterlife: With Harold Ramis having passed away, this plays out as a legacy sequel. The story is about Egon's two grandchildren slowly learning who grandpa was and what he was trying to do. It's actually a really great film, a "next generation" sequel, and if you're expecting Part 3 - it delivers!!!

Frozen Empire: I missed this at the theater. Redbox is no longer thing. It's on Netflix, but I have Netflix and Max bundled together for $10 through my phone provider which is the commercial version of Netflix. I have to upgrade to watch this movie, but then I lose my bundle deal. Can't password share to watch it on a friend's Netflix. This is why I still buy DVD & Blu-ray. I'll be picking up the disc next time I shop on Amazon. From trailers and clips on YouTube, it looks awesome. - I forgot to add: this film is a direct sequel to Afterlife, making this "part 4."

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I presume you've seen both 80's GB films?

Absolutely. I saw them both as a kid, got the DVD as an adult, played the games, watched the cartoon, bought the Statue of Liberty joystick... I'm not a hardcore fan, but I'm a fan.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Absolutely. I saw them both as a kid, got the DVD as an adult, played the games, watched the cartoon, bought the Statue of Liberty joystick... I'm not a hardcore fan, but I'm a fan.

I watched the cartoon as a kid, because my parents wouldn't let me see the movies. I think I saw them as TV broadcasts (being sneaky), then had them on VHS, then DVD, now I have the double feature Blu-ray. I had some toys as a kid, but I don't have any of that stuff anymore as an adult.

The reboot film is worth seeing if SNL humor makes you laugh.
Afterlife and Frozen Kingdom are worth seeing if you've been waiting for sequels.
The original GB's appear in both films.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

The problem is to anti-"woke" crowd just having characters like these versions of Judy and "Dr. Smith" is "too woke".

I feel the opposite, I actually prefer to see a character being gay treated the way it was in Strange World. There's no reason a character being gay should be a big deal at this, it really shouldn't have to be approached any different than you would a straight character or any other part of the character. We've been getting gay characters in media long enough now that they shouldn't have to make a big deal about.

#1 People are too sensitive. I've known mixed families, so I like what they did with Judy. It gave her more to do. In the original, she's just a damsel in distress. In the movie, she's there as a doctor and love interest for Don West. Granted, 2-hour movie, only so much time to go around to everyone. This time around, she's a fully 3D character. Dr. Smith wasn't woke, she is awesome in the Netflix show.

#2 I feel like it's something that should at least make it into the advertising. This is one of those things that's always going to divide the audience. You've got lots of people who may have gay friends, gay coworkers, maybe even gay relatives to, but just don't want to watch it on TV. Why doesn't matter, but the fact is that the divide will continue to exist. Imagine you watch a trailer for a western, and you get all excited. 10 minutes in, it's an outer space movie. You'd feel mislead, wouldn't you? Same idea. It's not about gay good or gay bad, but about movie-watching preferences.

If it helps, a gay or lesbian person might not want to watch "straight" fiction. Representing both sides of the coin and all.

 

[Michael]

I think it’s disingenuous to equate different genres of movies / TV shows with them featuring LGBTQ+ characters or not, or more precisely: to equate someone’s preference for one genre over another with them having a preference over the movies they are watching featuring LGBTQ+ characters or not. The existence of LGBTQ+ people is not a matter of fiction, but it’s an everyday fact of life. If a movie features LGBTQ+ characters, it shouldn’t have to be about LGBTQ+ issues (although it obviously can). Just as a movie featuring straight characters isn’t about heterosexuality. LGBTQ+ people exist, just like straight and cis people. A movie merely featuring LGBTQ+ characters isn’t the movie taking a stance “gay good” or “gay bad”. It’s just showing fucking everyday life on the planet Earth here in our reality. How can that be on the same level as someone preferring laser guns over revolvers? If someone is like “I don’t want to watch a movie because it features gay people” then that’s fucking stupid and bigoted.

 

[diankra]

I watch a lot of conservative stuff on YouTube. There's a lot of movie/TV reviews that hate on "woke" movies and "woke" series. I find this frustrating, because it's too vague and anything can be called woke or not woke. I think one animated film I haven't seen but would like to see is Strange World. Some people say it's woke. OK. What does that mean? I'm not going to watch something because woke or because not woke. I honestly don't care. Be specific. Now, some reviews said the main character is gay. OK, now that is a discussion point, and now something can be discussed. Some will be like, "Look, it's being modern, gay main character." Some will be uncomfortable, and just pick a different movie. You might have some parents promoting the movie, other parents condemning the movie. BUT, do you see how there's an actual discussion point?

I can understand being pro-woke or anti-woke in a societal context. However, to just be like, "Woke bad, bye." or "Woke good, yay," it's just overly simplistic, and I feel like it's saying words but not actually saying anything. If you're a YouTuber, and you're doing an hour video on why woke is good, bad, important, doesn't matter, that's fine. Now you're talking about society.

Circling back to film and TV, I like to break it down and explore what makes a film or series good or bad and why. Don't just slap a sticker on it and treat it like product, ya know?

P.S. I don't want to dive into politics, so let's keep "woke" focused purely on film/TV. Thank you!

It varies. Something can be 'woke' (hate that word) and good, but if something does all the tickboxes (black lead, white wife, female boss, disabled best friend, rich white villain) it can still be rubbish (The Interceptor, I mean you). Ultimately, goof writing, and a good writer is inclusive.

 

[UssGlenn]

The problem is to anti-"woke" crowd just having characters like these versions of Judy and "Dr. Smith" is "too woke".

I feel the opposite, I actually prefer to see a character being gay treated the way it was in Strange World. There's no reason a character being gay should be a big deal at this, it really shouldn't have to be approached any different than you would a straight character or any other part of the character. We've been getting gay characters in media long enough now that they shouldn't have to make a big deal about.

I agree in theory. Statistically, X number of characters should be gay by random chance. The problem is nothing in movies in random, its all deliberately created by the screenwriter. So having it feel natural is tricky. Disney is especially bad at it because they want to be able to scrub the reference from certain countries versions.

You know a Disney movie that I think pulled it off pretty well? Lightyear. My 3 year old loves that movie so it's on heavy rotation at my house. Hawthorne having a kid/grandkid is extremely relevant to the plot, so the audience finding out she's gay is very natural.

Note that we never find out Buzz's orientation. You assume he's straight, but the movie never tells you one way or the other, it's not plot relevant.

Edit: now that I think about it, it's actually very plot relevant because Izzy needs to share her Grandmother's last name but Alisha needs to meet her partner during the run of the movie. So thats probably the most efficient way of not needing to explain to the audience why her last name didn't change.

 

[Starscream2112]

You know, I just go to movies to escape from reality a bit and enjoy the film, not to analyze it. Some of my conservative friends will say "You like that Movie/TV Show?" but it is so woke. And I have no idea what they mean. To me, it was a good flick.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Same, here.

So say we all

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

You know, I just go to movies to escape from reality a bit and enjoy the film, not to analyze it. Some of my conservative friends will say "You like that Movie/TV Show?" but it is so woke. And I have no idea what they mean. To me, it was a good flick.

If I am in your shoes, my answer would be: "Woke is vague, what did you like and dislike?"

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I think it’s disingenuous to equate different genres of movies / TV shows with them featuring LGBTQ+ characters or not, or more precisely: to equate someone’s preference for one genre over another with them having a preference over the movies they are watching featuring LGBTQ+ characters or not. The existence of LGBTQ+ people is not a matter of fiction, but it’s an everyday fact of life. If a movie features LGBTQ+ characters, it shouldn’t have to be about LGBTQ+ issues (although it obviously can). Just as a movie featuring straight characters isn’t about heterosexuality. LGBTQ+ people exist, just like straight and cis people. A movie merely featuring LGBTQ+ characters isn’t the movie taking a stance “gay good” or “gay bad”. It’s just showing fucking everyday life on the planet Earth here in our reality. How can that be on the same level as someone preferring laser guns over revolvers? If someone is like “I don’t want to watch a movie because it features gay people” then that’s fucking stupid and bigoted.

I think LGBTQ+ can be a genre, but with context. Star Trek: Discovery is not a "LGBTQ+" show, it's a science-fiction show set in the future and in outer space. Now, if you make a TV drama or movie where a gay romance drives the story, then that could be an LGBTQ+ movie/series. It's like how some streamers will have a black or minority section (I can't remember what they call it). They're aiming at minority culture which can be different from mainstream film/TV. Additionally, a streamer might have a "faith" or "religion" section for all of their series/films that focus heavily on faith and religion and such.

"Strange World" would probably file under animated movies, because it's an animated film about a group of people having an adventure. Same idea of Disco being sci-fi.

To conclude, we live in an era where streaming is how people watch TV (series or movies), and it helps to find what you want to watch via sections. I want to be able to find sci-fi, horror, comedy, animation, because those are 4 categories I like. I'm Christian, so I actually like there being a dedicated religion section. If I'm gay, having a dedicated LGBTQ+ section makes it easy to find that content. If I'm a documentary lover, helps to have a dedicated documentary section. The list goes on, but you get the idea.

You're right to say that LGBTQ+ doesn't fit as a "genre" in the context of film/TV, but it can be useful in the context of finding movies or series on a streaming platform.

If anything, I get frustrated that streamers only have a couple of genres and don't break it down further.

 

[FredH]

Personally, when I learned that Ghostbusters was a remake and not a continuation my interest started evaporating, especially as its success would likely kill any chance of a continuation dead. Then I learned that it had a very different style of comedy to the original and wasn't very good, so I decided to skip it. Nothing to do with the female cast.

I didn't watch the next two Ghostbusters films either, but they're on my 'to-do' list. I'll get around to them eventually!

I was all for the all-female Ghostbusters, but unfortunately I felt the first fifteen minutes were unfunny and bad in exactly the same way that I felt the first fifteen minutes of Ghostbusters II were unfunny and bad, so I never watched the rest of either film. It was too bad, though; I wanted it to be good. (I haven’t seen the other Ghostbusters sequels.)

 

[carcinoGeneticist]

Is the "woke" making it bad? Like, not in a "I don't like gay characters" way but in a way that the way the "woke"ness is being handled is actively making the story worse. I can't think of how that would work, but from my perspective it doesn't matter in the slightest whether a film is "woke" or not. If it's good it's good and if it's bad it's bad.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I was all for the all-female Ghostbusters, but unfortunately I felt the first fifteen minutes were unfunny and bad in exactly the same way that I felt the first fifteen minutes of Ghostbusters II were unfunny and bad, so I never watched the rest of either film. It was too bad, though; I wanted it to be good. (I haven’t seen the other Ghostbusters sequels.)

You've only seen GB '84 and only the beginning of GB-II and GB-ATC?
Ghostbusters: I presume you love the original, yes?
Ghostbusters II: It's kind of a re-tread, but it's awesome, please watch the whole movie.
Answer the Call: You can skip this one. Some like it, most hate it. It's basically a 2-hour SNL skit take on Ghostbusters, a parody of a dark comedy. If you appreciate SNL-style humor, give it a go. If not, give it a pass.
Afterlife: If you love the original 2 films, Egon as a character, and more somber films like Super 8, then give this a go. It's very, very different from all 3 prior films and it's both awesome and heartbreaking.
Frozen Empire: I haven't seen it yet, but it looks awesome from the trailers and clips on YouTube.

 

[FredH]

You've only seen GB '84 and only the beginning of GB-II and GB-ATC?
Ghostbusters: I presume you love the original, yes?
Ghostbusters II: It's kind of a re-tread, but it's awesome, please watch the whole movie.
Answer the Call: You can skip this one. Some like it, most hate it. It's basically a 2-hour SNL skit take on Ghostbusters, a parody of a dark comedy. If you appreciate SNL-style humor, give it a go. If not, give it a pass.
Afterlife: If you love the original 2 films, Egon as a character, and more somber films like Super 8, then give this a go. It's very, very different from all 3 prior films and it's both awesome and heartbreaking.
Frozen Empire: I haven't seen it yet, but it looks awesome from the trailers and clips on YouTube.

Well, if you say so. I remember the start of GBII as basically an Evil Ghost Monologue, which I found silly in a bad way.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Well, if you say so. I remember the start of GBII as basically an Evil Ghost Monologue, which I found silly in a bad way.

Been a while since I saw GB-II, but the movie basically starts with the Ghostbusters disbanded, sued out of business. Ghosts are after Dana's baby, leading the GB's to reunite and investigate, getting arrested and dragged into court, saving a judge, and the GB's are back, baby! That's how it got started. The rest of the movie is dealing with ghost slime and the haunted painting who's aiming to come back to life and take over NYC. It's a really great film to be honest, and it has an ending that revivals the ending of the original.

 

[fireproof78]

Is the "woke" making it bad? Like, not in a "I don't like gay characters" way but in a way that the way the "woke"ness is being handled is actively making the story worse. I can't think of how that would work, but from my perspective it doesn't matter in the slightest whether a film is "woke" or not. If it's good it's good and if it's bad it's bad.

This

I'm not all for the moralizing that goes on with media criticism nowadays (and before). I just read an article about how Home Improvement was a horrible show and a bad influence because it played accidents for laughs, among others.

I didn't care when I watched it before and I don't care when I watched it in 2024: it still made me laugh.

So it goes with the term "woke." I don't care. It's a nonsensical term at this point, largely used to end conversation rather than actually discuss what was presented in a show or a movie.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

I just read an article about how Home Improvement was a horrible show and a bad influence because it played accidents for laughs, among others.

I didn't care when I watched it before and I don't care when I watched it in 2024: it still made me laugh.

Please, tell me you are joking.