Garak vs. Obrien, who is Bashirs best friend?

[Qonundrum]

.

Where does the Bashir Garak love interest thing come from?
I didn't feel like the characters were into each other more than friends.

I recall something about this being an early-on idea that was turned down? They still make a great double-act/friendship, but after seeing (IMHO) shlock in VOY (and DS9) where several weeks are devoted to what the couple is going to have for din-din... it's nap-time. I will admit that attempted relationships that fail have more intrigue or unrequited love or conflict ("Paradise Syndrome" hitting me hard due to that shock ending, though "In Theory" does far less for me now than on initial viewing...) Tro/Riker being exes-but-in-not-an-antagonistic way works far better than "Let He Who is Without Good Scripting" did for Leeta/Bashir and whatever convoluted bit of birddroppings that was supposed to be about...

Yeah, this is not even a question. Miles is miles ahead of of Elim, even if their names are almost the same, only reversed.

P.S. Screenrant can eat dicks. Not because of the article, just in general.

Not without a side order of clambake!

 

[Tosk]

Slightly attracted, yes.

Why are you adding the word "slightly"? The book doesn't do that. I suspect you're trying to minimize something you can't outright deny.

 

[fireproof78]

For some reason this clip that's used in a local radio show keeps popping in to my brain when I hear the discussion of attraction:

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Please note this as tongue in cheek. As others have noted, fans tend to read things in to situations when minimal information is present, or neither confirmed nor denied. It makes for great speculation sometimes, but when it comes to relationships? Star Trek has lacked enough to basically get a shrug from me.

O'Brien is Bashir's best friend, and he often times is a great source for O'Brien's creative outlets. I think it speaks to the stabilizing nature of the friendship that while people vote for O'Brien, they'd rather talk about Garak who is all subtext and eisegesis than cold hard facts.

 

[Frontis]

Yeah, I always thought he was cute but annoying, mostly because of Jadzia because she was my instant favorite. A bit pushy, but I could not really hate him because he was very young and smitten. I think his youthful zeal can be interpreted as arrogance at times or even turn into it. His friends brought out his humanity. And we learned more and more what a dedicated friend and Doctor he was.

One of my favorite episodes is where Julian wanted to cure the Jem'hidar of their addiction and was determined until O'Brien kayoed his machine. I thought it was a bit cold of O'Brien, but this really showed Julians moxy and perhaps the first time that the Chief showed how much he really cared about Julian. Or was growing to care about him and O'Briens reluctant friendship was no longer so reluctant, and he could not be in denial. Things after that were pretty smooth between them. No more friction.

Also, I wouldn't mind it if more people talked about Obrien's friendship since that won the vote. Sad that Elim did not even get one even, even though I voted for the chief.

Well I think everybody who has a friend like O'Brien is lucky. He is loyal, true, honest and never lets you down. He will support you any way he can and you can trust him 100%. And he's the guy I would love to go for a drink with.

 

[Lynx]

Why are you adding the word "slightly"? The book doesn't do that. I suspect you're trying to minimize something you can't outright deny.

I'm not minimizing, I'm just stating the fact.
I added the word "slightly" because it was just what it was.
Garak remained a good friend with Pythas Lok (Eight Lubak) but that's just what they were.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Right, Lynx.

 

[Tosk]

I added the word "slightly" because it was just what it was.

The book doesn't say that, it literally just says he was attracted to him. Which is why I'm arguing the point.

"Five was an athlete who also did well in class. I could see that he was attracted to Eight. As indeed I was." - Elim Garak

garakk remained a good friend with Pythas Lok (Eight Lubak) but that's just what they were.

I never said otherwise.

 

[Lynx]

The book doesn't say that, it literally just says he was attracted to him. Which is why I'm arguing the point.

"Five was an athlete who also did well in class. I could see that he was attracted to Eight. As indeed I was." - Elim Garak


I never said otherwise.

But "attracted" in this case may have been like admiring a sucessful athlete or rock star.
Or a role model as in this case.

 

[Michael]

Oh my god, the mental gymnastics just so you don't have to admit that Andrew Robinson wrote Garak as attracted to both men and women in his book. And why the hell wouldn't he? As this thread makes clear, at this point he’s practically famous for wanting to give Garak a queer sexuality. It only makes sense that he would solidify that when given the chance to write Garak in his own book. And also, the rich irony of someone with a wet dream of pairing off Garak with Kes of all people so staunchly denying others the mere notion that Garak might (also) be attracted to men, even though (1.) the actor played him that way in the beginning, (2.) the head showrunner now wishes he had made it official on the show, and (3.) some clear hints from one of the most popular Trek novels in existence. But no, it just can’t be.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

You can't blame someone from having their views. Some people are simply like that. It doesnlt make them any worse.

As for me, I am not a Garak/Bashir fan by any stretch, but I think this pairing isn;t that bad. There are many much worse paitings out there. At least Bashir and Garak are allies in at least some way, and never tried to (directly) kill one another.

 

[maneth]

Bashir's best friend either on or off DS9 was undoubtedly O'Brien, even if they didn't get along at first. I honestly think that the friendship was one of the things that really matured Bashir, and the other was coming to terms with the illegal genetic manipulation that was done to him, but that was later.

There's certainly some tension between Garak and Bashir, but whether or not it's sexual, or reciprocated, is anybody's guess. That said, both actors have stated that they would've been open to the idea of an attraction between the characters, so who knows.

I'm pretty sure that if DS9 were made today, those two would have an encounter if not a relationship.

 

[at Quark's]

To be honest, I didn't see he was that attracted to Ziyal beyond 'slightly', either, even though she certainly saw more in him, and he was glad to have another Cardassian to talk to. Flattered by her adulation, yes, but I'm not convinced there was more to it, and he was very much aware he'd done / seen horrible things in his past she wouldn't understand.

 

[Tosk]

Although she did know some of what his past entails. (Mostly only posting because I like the dialogue.)

Ziyal "Kira and my father both told me that you used to be an agent of the Obsidian Order. That you had my grandfather tortured and killed, and that you could easily kill me without a second thought."

Garak "Although I seldom credit the Major or your father with being entirely trustworthy, in this case they're both telling the truth."

Ziyal "You know what else is true? I don't care. I'm half-Bajoran and that means I'm an outcast back home. I can't go back and neither can you. So we can either share some time together or we can ignore each other. I spent five years in a prisoner of war camp by myself. I don't need your company. But if you'd like to stay and share the heat with me, maybe tell me something about home that I don't know, then I would welcome your company. And I get the feeling you would welcome mine. Either way, it's up to you."

 

[Mage]

But "attracted" in this case may have been like admiring a sucessful athlete or rock star.
Or a role model as in this case.

God I wish Andrew Robinson was on this board so he could literally tell you you're wrong. Bro flat out told people what his idea of Garak was. But hey, we all know you know the character of Garak way better than anyone.

 

[Lynx]

God I wish Andrew Robinson was on this board so he could literally tell you you're wrong. Bro flat out told people what his idea of Garak was. But hey, we all know you know the character of Garak way better than anyone.

Is it absolutely necessary to come upp with mean remarks and personal insults instead of debating the subject instead.

What's wrong with people today?

I really wish that Andrew J. Robinson was here too because then we could have a cordial and constructive debate about this.

I'm totally aware of Robinsons ideas for Garak. But I must point out that there are a lot of pages in the excellent book with content about Garak's feelings for Palandine which are totally ignored by some who post in this thread.

Oh my god, the mental gymnastics just so you don't have to admit that Andrew Robinson wrote Garak as attracted to both men and women in his book. And why the hell wouldn't he? As this thread makes clear, at this point he’s practically famous for wanting to give Garak a queer sexuality. It only makes sense that he would solidify that when given the chance to write Garak in his own book. And also, the rich irony of someone with a wet dream of pairing off Garak with Kes of all people so staunchly denying others the mere notion that Garak might (also) be attracted to men, even though (1.) the actor played him that way in the beginning, (2.) the head showrunner now wishes he had made it official on the show, and (3.) some clear hints from one of the most popular Trek novels in existence. But no, it just can’t be.

As I wrote above, I'm well aware of Robinsons original ideas for Garak.
I'm also aware of the fact that (1.) the actor played him that way in the beginning, (2.) the head showrunner now wishes he had made it official on the show, and (3.) some clear hints from one of the most popular Trek novels in existence.

But the point is that:
1. The ideas for the character you mentioned never happened in the series.
2. There is very little about Garak's attraction to two of his colleagues at the Bamarren Institute in the book.
3. But there are a lot of pages in the excellent and popular book about Garak's relations to Palandine and his feelings for her which actually put him into the trouble which led to his exile. Not to mention his relationship to Ziyal and his attraction to the dabo girl Tir Remara.

Curious that those relationships are never mentioned in this debate. They are in the book!

As for pairing off Garak with Kes, well that was a joke. Unfortunately there are those who seem to be immune to jokes. A sign of the time perhaps.

I have no intention to pair of Kes with Garak-at least not for now!

Even if those two are my favorite characters in Star Trek so who knows.........

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Is it absolutely necessary to come upp with mean remarks and personal insults instead of debating the subject instead.

What's wrong with people today?

I really wish that Andrew J. Robinson was here too because then we could have a cordial and constructive debate about this.

I'm totally aware of Robinsons ideas for Garak. But I must point out that there are a lot of pages in the excellent book with content about Garak's feelings for Palandine which are totally ignored by some who post in this thread.



As I wrote above, I'm well aware of Robinsons original ideas for Garak.
I'm also aware of the fact that (1.) the actor played him that way in the beginning, (2.) the head showrunner now wishes he had made it official on the show, and (3.) some clear hints from one of the most popular Trek novels in existence.

But the point is that:
1. The ideas for the character you mentioned never happened in the series.
2. There is very little about Garak's attraction to two of his colleagues at the Bamarren Institute in the book.
3. But there are a lot of pages in the excellent and popular book about Garak's relations to Palandine and his feelings for her which actually put him into the trouble which led to his exile. Not to mention his relationship to Ziyal and his attraction to the dabo girl Tir Remara.

Curious that those relationships are never mentioned in this debate. They are in the book!

As for pairing off Garak with Kes, well that was a joke. Unfortunately there are those who seem to be immune to jokes. A sign of the time perhaps.

I have no intention to pair of Kes with Garak-at least not for now!

Even if those two are my favorite characters in Star Trek so who knows.........

Good, Lynx. I agree.

If i were to rely on words of actors and what they might done now, Iwould have to give up all hopes on one pairing now. But I ho[pe their creators will change their minds. This certinely can happen (and, to make it clear, I am not talking about Star Trek pairing).

 

[Tosk]

But I must point out that there are a lot of pages in the excellent book with content about Garak's feelings for Palandine which are totally ignored by some who post in this thread.

No one is ignoring that. ...Who in this thread claimed that Garak is only attracted to males?

 

[Lynx]

Good, Lynx. I agree.

If i were to rely on words of actors and what they might done now, Iwould have to give up all hopes on one pairing now. But I ho[pe their creators will change their minds. This certinely can happen (and, to make it clear, I am not talking about Star Trek pairing).

Thanks!
Unfortunately, when it comes to Garak, he was totally destroyed in a recent book. But No one but me seems to care about that. Strange, isn't it?

No one is ignoring that. ...Who in this thread claimed that Garak is only attracted to males?

So we are playing sematics now.
Well, I'm so sorry that I missed or didn't mention the page in the book where Garak is described to be attracted to a male.

I can understand that it has annoyed some people.

That Garak's love for Palandine which is described on several sides in the book is ignored or "forgotten" seems to be of minor importance as it is.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Thanks!
Unfortunately, when it comes to Garak, he was totally destroyed in a recent book. But No one but me seems to care about that. Strange, isn't it?



So we are playing sematics now.
Well, I'm so sorry that I missed or didn't mention the page in the book where Garak is described to be attracted to a male.

I can understand that it has annoyed some people.

That Garak's love for Palandine which is described on several sides in the book is ignored or "forgotten" seems to be of minor importance as it is.

Unfortunately, this is how many people see: completely ignore straight relationships, even if they are focus of the work, in favor of just teased (or even not) same - sex relationships.
For me, this is very annoying. After all, which one contributes t our species? This is not the main purpose of such relationships, but this is important. This is why, in my books, Kes stands against such things: she believies that a very strong frienship can give you just as strong a bind and gratification as romance, outside of the reproduction... But such relatiopnships has nothing to do with reproduction (now, this is a bit influenced by her Ocampan biology, but still). So, this little jump is not only for nothing, but it messes up with your reproductive system. This not only makes it useless and wasteful (for the Ofcampa, anyway). but also somewhat of a species betrayal. Now, Ocampa are emphasizing on it because of their unique biology, but the principle still stands. Bisexual people are treated somewhat better by them,. as they can still contribute. And Ocampa are usually too benelovent to actively apply this. But they believe in it.

What I wrote this for is not to attack it completely, but to show that people focus on such thigns too much. I hope you'II understand.

 

[Tosk]

So we are playing sematics now.

What semantics?

Well, I'm so sorry that I missed or didn't mention the page in the book where Garak is described to be attracted to a male.

I can understand that it has annoyed some people.

I don't think anyone was annoyed that you "missed it". Any potential annoyance was (IMO) due to you trying to consciously ignore it when making a point.

That Garak's love for Palandine which is described on several sides in the book is ignored or "forgotten" seems to be of minor importance as it is.

I don't know what that means.