Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"

[Guy Gardener]

Might as well drop my two slips before the necro-post hammer drops...

Voyager is what you get when you take a proven franchise (Star Trek), a wonderful cast, and an intriguing premise... then put all this potential in the hands of showrunners who don't even know that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant.

Sometimes you get good stuff. Sometimes you get mediocre stuff. And sometimes you get "Threshold".

They also had no idea that 3/4s of the crew were supposed to be enlisted crewmen, who "legally" had to look up to Harry.

 

[at Quark's]

I think Voyager was designed to also draw in the more casual viewer. (even though it has its share of regular fans as well, of course.)

Great as DS9 is, watching an isolated episode isn't always that rewarding when you have no idea what's going on (especially so in the 10-part finale).

Even when I'd seen the series (years before) I found that it wasn't that easy to just rewatch an isolated episode from that finale. It only 'worked' when watching the entirety of it.

 

[Oddish]

They also had no idea that 3/4s of the crew were supposed to be enlisted crewmen, who "legally" had to look up to Harry.

They could have looked up to LTJG Kim.

That's one thing that Star Trek has never done well: had a proper enlisted hierarchy. The actual US Navy (on which Starfleet is based) has nine enlisted ranks. Starfleet has a bunch of Crewmen and one Senior Chief Specialist who bounced through a bunch of other ranks first.

 

[Akiraprise]

I think Voyager was designed to also draw in the more casual viewer. (even though it has its share of regular fans as well, of course.)

I don't think this is what TPTB initially wanted for the show. The entire setting for the show kind of lends itself to an almost mandatory arc of some kind which the first 3 seasons had loosely. Then the ratings started dropping and UPN mandated TNG-Lite.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

They could have looked up to LTJG Kim.

That's one thing that Star Trek has never done well: had a proper enlisted hierarchy. The actual US Navy (on which Starfleet is based) has nine enlisted ranks. Starfleet has a bunch of Crewmen and one Senior Chief Specialist who bounced through a bunch of other ranks first.

I don't think it's ever really wanted to do that. If I remember right, Roddenberry hated the divide between officers and enlisted and intended everyone on the Enterprise to be an academy-educated astronaut.

 

[Dukhat]

Holy 8 year thread revive, Batman!

 

[Oddish]

I don't think this is what TPTB initially wanted for the show. The entire setting for the show kind of lends itself to an almost mandatory arc of some kind which the first 3 seasons had loosely. Then the ratings started dropping and UPN mandated TNG-Lite.

I'd more say two years. With Seska and Suder eliminated, the show took a sharp turn away from serialization. And they were reportedly trying to salvage Harry in "Favorite Son", but the powers that be stopped them, demanding instead the stagnant character he became.

 

[Dee1891]

Sometimes you get good stuff. Sometimes you get mediocre stuff. And sometimes you get "Threshold".

This sounds like every Star Trek series I have seen and the movie franchise to me.

 

[Oddish]

Found this, thought it funny. Because maybe at least some of the criticism was justified...

• You've been on this tiny ship in the Delta Quadrant beyond any hope of recrew or resupply for over a year, but you keep seeing ensigns you don't recognise. Everyone tells you that they've always been here.
• You go down to Engineering looking for Lt. Carey. B'Elanna tells you that he's just stepped out. He's been "just stepped out" for days.
• A shuttle crashes on a desert planet. You speak with Chakotay about the possibility of trading for some new shuttles, but he looks at you funny and says "but we already have a full complement of shuttles".
• You run to the shuttlebay and inspect them personally. There is a full complement of shuttles. And none of them even have a scratch.
• The next week, a shuttle is torn to pieces in a plasma storm. You're not even surprised when you find intact it in the shuttlebay an hour later.
• You stop mentioning shuttles.
• The ship has an encounter with some Kazon, but manages to get away. Their ships are primitive and slow and you shouldn't run into them again.
• Two weeks later, you meet the same Kazon, now somehow in front of you. You begin to suspect that you're driving in circles.
• You go to Engineering looking for Lt. Carey. You haven't seen him in two years. He's "not there right now, but should be back in a minute".
• Janeway and Paris travel at Warp 10 and turn into salamanders. You're *sure* that it happened. You *remember* it happening! But no one brings it up. When you ask Tom about it, he doesn't even register the question.
• You scream "BUT YOU WERE A SALAMANDER!" into his ear. He doesn't even hear you.
• You see another Ensign you don't recognise. You finally just ask the computer for the crew complement of Voyager. You are told that the answer is: 121.
• A month later, the Hirogen conquer the ship, spend weeks brainwashing and surgically altering the crew into believing that they are actually characters in holographic simulations, and then hunt them for sport. This culminates in a pitched battle between the crew and the Hirogen in which the ship is utterly wrecked and dozens of people are killed.
• Afterwards, you ask the computer for the ship's crew complement. You are told that the answer is: 147.
• The next day, you wake up and find Voyager restored to its original state.
• You make a discreet inquiry about Lt. Carey. Now everyone acts like he's dead but can't tell you precisely when or how.
• The Captain takes you aside one day and specifically instructs you not to mention Ensign Jetal to the Doctor. She says that she knows that this will be difficult, given how close we all were to her (and you in particular), but that for the greater good of the crew, you need to act like Ensign Jetal never existed. You solemnly nod your head and consent, and she gives you a comradely pat on the shoulder and leaves the room.
• You have absolutely no idea who Ensign Jetal is.
• Voyager absorbs the remaining crew of the USS Equinox. Well at least you'll finally have an explanation for the new crew you see around the ship! You never see any of them ever again.
• You've now travelled almost 40,000 light years towards home. You check the star charts; somehow, you're still in the Delta Quadrant. You begin to wonder if the Beta Quadrant even exists.
• The Delta Flyer is destroyed by Borg torpedoes. You don't even bother to check the shuttlebay for it, you just instinctively know that it will be back.
• A few months later, the Captain gives you the sad news: Lt. Carey is dead.
• You finally make it back to the Alpha Quadrant, say your tearful farewells, and receive a handshake and a promotion from Admiral Paris. As one last thought before leaving Voyager forever, you pay a visit to the shuttlebay. You find it utterly empty, except for one lowly crewman with a mop and pail, swabbing the deck. "I...guess that Starfleet must have already cleared out the remaining shuttles?" You say uncertainly, your voice echoing in the cavernous, empty room. The crewman breaks off his mopping and looks at you like you've lost your mind and says: "Voyager never had any shuttles."

 

[Anwar]

Found this, thought it funny. Because maybe at least some of the criticism was justified...

• You've been on this tiny ship in the Delta Quadrant beyond any hope of recrew or resupply for over a year, but you keep seeing ensigns you don't recognise. Everyone tells you that they've always been here.
• You go down to Engineering looking for Lt. Carey. B'Elanna tells you that he's just stepped out. He's been "just stepped out" for days.
• A shuttle crashes on a desert planet. You speak with Chakotay about the possibility of trading for some new shuttles, but he looks at you funny and says "but we already have a full complement of shuttles".
• You run to the shuttlebay and inspect them personally. There is a full complement of shuttles. And none of them even have a scratch.
• The next week, a shuttle is torn to pieces in a plasma storm. You're not even surprised when you find intact it in the shuttlebay an hour later.
• You stop mentioning shuttles.
• The ship has an encounter with some Kazon, but manages to get away. Their ships are primitive and slow and you shouldn't run into them again.
• Two weeks later, you meet the same Kazon, now somehow in front of you. You begin to suspect that you're driving in circles.
• You go to Engineering looking for Lt. Carey. You haven't seen him in two years. He's "not there right now, but should be back in a minute".
• Janeway and Paris travel at Warp 10 and turn into salamanders. You're *sure* that it happened. You *remember* it happening! But no one brings it up. When you ask Tom about it, he doesn't even register the question.
• You scream "BUT YOU WERE A SALAMANDER!" into his ear. He doesn't even hear you.
• You see another Ensign you don't recognise. You finally just ask the computer for the crew complement of Voyager. You are told that the answer is: 121.
• A month later, the Hirogen conquer the ship, spend weeks brainwashing and surgically altering the crew into believing that they are actually characters in holographic simulations, and then hunt them for sport. This culminates in a pitched battle between the crew and the Hirogen in which the ship is utterly wrecked and dozens of people are killed.
• Afterwards, you ask the computer for the ship's crew complement. You are told that the answer is: 147.
• The next day, you wake up and find Voyager restored to its original state.
• You make a discreet inquiry about Lt. Carey. Now everyone acts like he's dead but can't tell you precisely when or how.
• The Captain takes you aside one day and specifically instructs you not to mention Ensign Jetal to the Doctor. She says that she knows that this will be difficult, given how close we all were to her (and you in particular), but that for the greater good of the crew, you need to act like Ensign Jetal never existed. You solemnly nod your head and consent, and she gives you a comradely pat on the shoulder and leaves the room.
• You have absolutely no idea who Ensign Jetal is.
• Voyager absorbs the remaining crew of the USS Equinox. Well at least you'll finally have an explanation for the new crew you see around the ship! You never see any of them ever again.
• You've now travelled almost 40,000 light years towards home. You check the star charts; somehow, you're still in the Delta Quadrant. You begin to wonder if the Beta Quadrant even exists.
• The Delta Flyer is destroyed by Borg torpedoes. You don't even bother to check the shuttlebay for it, you just instinctively know that it will be back.
• A few months later, the Captain gives you the sad news: Lt. Carey is dead.
• You finally make it back to the Alpha Quadrant, say your tearful farewells, and receive a handshake and a promotion from Admiral Paris. As one last thought before leaving Voyager forever, you pay a visit to the shuttlebay. You find it utterly empty, except for one lowly crewman with a mop and pail, swabbing the deck. "I...guess that Starfleet must have already cleared out the remaining shuttles?" You say uncertainly, your voice echoing in the cavernous, empty room. The crewman breaks off his mopping and looks at you like you've lost your mind and says: "Voyager never had any shuttles."

This is why they should've have a rule to never give a solid number for crew....and Voyager shouldn't have been a Federation Starship to begin with. It should've been some alien ship they got from the Caretaker's Array that could house thousands but didn't need a big crew to start with.

 

[Farscape One]

Actually, the conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet had popped up a few more times during Season One.




How was Janeway's handling of the Vidiians a problem?

Regarding Janeway handling the Vidiians...

If the situation in "PHAGE" is what is being referred to, I completely agree that she handled that badly. VERY badly.

Neelix's lungs were stolen by those two. She is finally able to capture them... and her solution is to let them go?!

That sends a very, very bad message to her crew. She's basically telegraphing to them that their safety doesn't mean anything to her as long as her principles are being upheld. She's saying to the crew, "I'm not going to bother defending you or fight back when you have been violated." Why would anyone want to follow a leader who doesn't have their back when they are attacked? Especially the Maquis crewmen.

Janeway is supremely lucky that the one Vidiian decided to help Neelix. Otherwise, there could (and frankly SHOULD) have been a mutiny.


(And before you throw in the 'only Janeway gets picked on specifically out of all the other captains' card, Archer did the same thing in season 1's "FUSION". And I absolutely hated his decision there of just letting Tolaris go after he basically mind-raped T'Pol. At the very least, he should have been kept under guard until the Vulcan High Command can come by and grab him. Not just get a stern talking to and get released to the Vulcan ship.)

I don't think this is what TPTB initially wanted for the show. The entire setting for the show kind of lends itself to an almost mandatory arc of some kind which the first 3 seasons had loosely. Then the ratings started dropping and UPN mandated TNG-Lite.

I agree that the entire premise of VOY almost expects serialization, possibly even more so than DS9... especially since with VOY, there is no chance of getting new Starfleet crew for transfers, replacements for deaths, etc. And the first 2 seasons did have some semi-serialization and some arcs. I wouldn't say it disappeared completely from season 3 onward, but it was certainly cut back.

 

[Lynx]

Voyager was never the worst Trek show.

ENT, DSC and PIC are then times worse.

Voyager had a good premise and great characters.

Unfortunately it was hampered by bad writing and stupid decisions from those in charge.

 

[Anwar]

It doesn't help that they ended up hiring some lazy, bad actors like Wang and Beltran and didn't have the stones to just get rid of them when it became apparent.

 

[Oddish]

It doesn't help that they ended up hiring competent actors like Wang and Beltran and didn't have the stones to do anything interesting with their characters, even promote Wang's character realistically. So, the characters stagnated and at least one of the actors stopped caring.

FTFY.

 

[Tosk]

Voyager was never the worst Trek show.

ENT, DSC and PIC are then times worse.

ENT, DSC, and PIC all came after VOY.

So by your own words, Voyager was the worst show at one point. So not never.

 

[fireproof78]

ENT, DSC, and PIC all came after VOY.

So by your own words, Voyager was the worst show at one point. So not never.

It certainly was the worst and enjoyed competing with Enterprise.

 

[Oddish]

It certainly was the worst and enjoyed competing with Enterprise.

Both shows suffered from the same overall issue: an unwillingness to live up to their premise. Since they had the same powers that be, I guess that's no surprise.

DS9, since it was ignored by the premise-demolishing juggernaut that was Rick Berman and his higher-ups, was free to have serial plot lines, genuine consequences, and dynamic characters. Voyager and Enterprise weren't so lucky.

That's why Voyager was what it was. And why Enterprise had transporters (when they made no sense), the same weapon set TNG had (only tweaking the names slightly), and had humanity set on course to create the Federation by Faceless Future Guy instead of just exploring deep space for the first time.

 

[Anwar]

Both shows suffered from the same overall issue: an unwillingness to live up to their premise. Since they had the same powers that be, I guess that's no surprise.

DS9, since it was ignored by the premise-demolishing juggernaut that was Rick Berman and his higher-ups, was free to have serial plot lines, genuine consequences, and dynamic characters. Voyager and Enterprise weren't so lucky.

That's why Voyager was what it was. And why Enterprise had transporters (when they made no sense), the same weapon set TNG had (only tweaking the names slightly), and had humanity set on course to create the Federation by Faceless Future Guy instead of just exploring deep space for the first time.

ENT was always going to be hard show to do, with how inconsistent Trek has been with its past.

It doesn't help that ENT ended up looking more like a Prequel to TNG than to TOS.

 

[Lynx]

ENT, DSC, and PIC all came after VOY.

So by your own words, Voyager was the worst show at one point. So not never.

Honestly, I won't label Voyager as "worst".

I actually liked the series and its characters, at least the first three seasons.
It started to go down in season 4.

When I first saw Voyager in the beginning of 1998, I thought it was great. I oliked the premise for the show and the characters.

But I hadn't had the opportunity to watch DS9 then, I've only watched the first season of it and thought it was good. But it became even better later on.

When I watch Voyager now, I find lots of flaws in it, even in seasons 1-3.
But I still find it likeable.

I can't say the same of ENT, DSC and PIC.
Huge dissapointments!

 

[Oddish]

Most aspects of Voyager were really good. It was just put in the hands of showrunners who (among other things) tried to turn it into something it wasn't really meant to be.