Forces of Nature - Encounters between the truly MASSIVE Movie Antagonists

[Admiral Archer]

"There are things you can't fight, acts of god. You see a hurricane coming, you have to get out of the way."
-Raleigh Becket, Pacific Rim

Over the course of the first ten Star Trek movies, we've only had 3 films which dealt with what I call "Force of Nature" villains or antagonists - entities of incredible power and energy that even a fleet of hundreds of starships could not defeat. They are, to me, the most interesting aspects of Star Trek's various stories. How do you fight a hurricane? You really can't. Not without thinking outside the box.

But what happens when two hurricanes make war? Which one comes out on top? This is a "what if" type scenario, in which the three biggest threats to the Star Trek universe are pitted against each other. Hopefully far, far away from the comforts of Federation Space...

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

At least they have 3. That's something the Kelvinverse needs to do. (And the swarm ships don't count - they were deployed by a villain.)

 

[Admiral Archer]

At least they have 3. That's something the Kelvinverse needs to do. (And the swarm ships don't count - they were deployed by a villain.)

Totally agree. Unfortunately, Star Trek seems to think it always needs a vengeful villain; every movie since Star Trek V in 1989 has had either a villain bent on revenge or a hero who is dangerously close to becoming a villain bent on revenge. I keep saying we don't need yet another Khan knockoff, but we keep getting Khan knockoffs.

 

[fireproof78]

Totally agree. Unfortunately, Star Trek seems to think it always needs a vengeful villain; every movie since Star Trek V in 1989 has had either a villain bent on revenge or a hero who is dangerously close to becoming a villain bent on revenge. I keep saying we don't need yet another Khan knockoff, but we keep getting Khan knockoffs.

It's what makes money. It's what ranks on the top 10 lists.

On topic, I lean towards V'Ger as more dangerous.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

So an antagonist who is not the villain (but just has a different opinion) wouldn't make money?

 

[fireproof78]

So an antagonist who is not the villain (but just has a different opinion) wouldn't make money?

That's the question but isn't what is often talked about or made large amounts of money at the box office.

Studio's want guarantee of some sort of a return.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

And a vengeance plotline is the only way to achieve that?

 

[FederationHistorian]

I rank them, from most to least dangerous, as:
1. Nexus
2. V’Ger
3. Whale Probe

 

[fireproof78]

And a vengeance plotline is the only way to achieve that?

Of course not, but they are looking for predictable returns. So, they look at past history, they look at fans and what they say is "The best" and they go with that.

I recall James Cawley discussing Abrams' film and part of what moved them to try out a prequel was the attention Cawley's fan film got for the Kirk/Spock era.

I think, in these instances, reputation carries a lot of weight

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I guess a court room episode wouldn't attract theatergoers, even if such are among the top episodes.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess a court room episode wouldn't attract theatergoers, even if such are among the top episodes.

Probably not. The striking of the balance is always in what will draw in fans and the casual movie goer. A natural disaster/force of nature is pretty easy to understand. A revenge plot is fairly easy to understand and actually a driving point in a lot of classical literature, including the Three Musketeers, Count of Monte Cristo, Hamlet, and more.

So, grabbing on to what's popular is usually what's driving ideas. They don't want to risk their money for nothing. Though I'm sure fans would like them to.

 

[FederationHistorian]

At least they have 3. That's something the Kelvinverse needs to do. (And the swarm ships don't count - they were deployed by a villain.)

I think the red matter blackholes were supposed to the force of nature antagonists for ST’09.

I guess a court room episode wouldn't attract theatergoers, even if such are among the top episodes.

Didn’t TUC feature a Klingon court room segment with Kirk and Bones on the stand? And the beginning and ending of TVH in the Federation Council chambers? Even ST’09 had the Starfleet Academy hearing. It the TNG movies that never did anything in a courtroom setting, and only because the script for INS was drastically changed (Picard was to face the Federation Council in the original INS script).

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

By that time, we already knew the TOS version of the characters.

I guess I meant they'll never make a movie out of "Court Martial" (without significant changes)