I hate my job. If I didn't have to leave, I would've finished. So far, it's great.
Re-Watching DS9
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
The Expanse is quite possibly the greatest sci-fi show produced in the last ten years for me. Only For All Mankind comes close to it.
By happy coincidence, For All Mankind is what I'll be watching after I finish The Expanse. It's going to be a while, though. I'm not binging The Expanse; I'll only be watching one or two per week.
Besides not having the time for it, I've found that binging doesn't work for me because then I don't really absorb that much. It starts to blur together.
Besides not having the time for it, I've found that binging doesn't work for me because then I don't really absorb that much. It starts to blur together.
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Mise En Scène Time.
When I was in college, I once had to write a three-page paper about a single shot in a film and what everything in the shot represented. From the characters to the props to the framing to the position to what was in the background to what was in the foreground, how it represented the journey, and on and on and on. That was brutal. I can't even remember what the film was anymore, it's been over 20 years, I think it was something with Ben Affleck from the late-'90s, but I remember the experience of really straining to make it up to those three full pages. We won't be going anyway near that far with...
What the shots from "Emissary" represent when Sisko interacts with the Prophets (so weird going back to the first episode again!):
1. When Sisko and Dax leave the Runabout and step onto whatever it is they stepped on: The storm that Sisko sees represents the intense storm of emotions he's feeling. The darkness he sees represents how he's felt since Jennifer died. The peaceful meadows that Jadzia sees represents her serenity and being at peace with herself and nature. When Sisko is confused over what Jadzia sees, it contrasts his perspective to hers, and how much Sisko doesn't see because he hasn't lived multiple lifetimes and can't see past the moment he's stuck in. As he later says, "It's not linear." The deep, dark valleys that Sisko sees show much worse things can get for him if he lets his grief consume him and take him down into the depths of darkness.
2. When Sisko is surrounded by pure white, it's not his point of view, it's what we see, but white represents the presence of all colors. So, Sisko is surrounded by his entire life, as the Prophets take him on a tour of it, while trying to understand Humanity in the process. In the Bible, white represents Jesus Christ, purity, innocence and sacrifice. Eventually, Sisko will sacrifice himself in a sense. Since the Prophets are non-linear, "What You Leave Behind" is fair game, even if the writers didn't intend for it when "Emissary" was written. Purity is represented through Sisko's pure feelings. Innocence would be Sisko's innocence during the Battle of Wolf 359. Since the Prophets are responsible for Sisko's birth, that makes him the son of the Bajorans' gods in a way, which makes him an analogue to Jesus Christ, who also suffered. Fortunately, unlike Jesus, Sisko wasn't crucified and savagely beaten endlessly.
3. I'll have to hit pause several times for the next few seconds.
5. When Picard (as Picard) says "It is responding to auditory and visual stimuli," it represents Sisko immediately thinking of Locutus when he saw Picard on the Enterprise. How? Picard has the same voice (auditory) and face (visual) as Locutus. Seeing Picard triggers Sisko into remembering the Battle of Wolf 359 and Jennifer's death (stimuli). The warm lighting represents the boiling over feelings Sisko has about this.
6. When Sisko asks, "Are you capable of communicating with me?" the image turns to Kai Opaka. Earlier, by communicating with Kai Opaka, Sisko was able to collect an Orb, find out about the celestial temple, discovered the Wormhole, and was now able to communicate with The Prophets. In contrast to Opaka, who knew what Sisko was (the Emissary), the Prophets don't know what Sisko is and asks, "What are you?" They ask what instead of who, because they know who Sisko is. The "what" can be open to interpretation. Sisko says that he's Human. I don't think that's the "what" the Prophets have in mind. I think they want to know what Sisko is and what he sees himself as on several more levels than just he's Human.
7. The next shot is of Sisko sitting next to Jake, as Jake fishes. Jake, as someone growing up, learning, and curious about the world represents the Prophets learning about and being curious about Sisko. The Jake avatar asks what time is, and that's another thing the Prophets want to learn about.
Stopping it there for now. I'll do a separate post for every scene where Sisko interacts with the Prophets. That was the first, before it cut back to the station.
When I was in college, I once had to write a three-page paper about a single shot in a film and what everything in the shot represented. From the characters to the props to the framing to the position to what was in the background to what was in the foreground, how it represented the journey, and on and on and on. That was brutal. I can't even remember what the film was anymore, it's been over 20 years, I think it was something with Ben Affleck from the late-'90s, but I remember the experience of really straining to make it up to those three full pages. We won't be going anyway near that far with...
What the shots from "Emissary" represent when Sisko interacts with the Prophets (so weird going back to the first episode again!):
1. When Sisko and Dax leave the Runabout and step onto whatever it is they stepped on: The storm that Sisko sees represents the intense storm of emotions he's feeling. The darkness he sees represents how he's felt since Jennifer died. The peaceful meadows that Jadzia sees represents her serenity and being at peace with herself and nature. When Sisko is confused over what Jadzia sees, it contrasts his perspective to hers, and how much Sisko doesn't see because he hasn't lived multiple lifetimes and can't see past the moment he's stuck in. As he later says, "It's not linear." The deep, dark valleys that Sisko sees show much worse things can get for him if he lets his grief consume him and take him down into the depths of darkness.
2. When Sisko is surrounded by pure white, it's not his point of view, it's what we see, but white represents the presence of all colors. So, Sisko is surrounded by his entire life, as the Prophets take him on a tour of it, while trying to understand Humanity in the process. In the Bible, white represents Jesus Christ, purity, innocence and sacrifice. Eventually, Sisko will sacrifice himself in a sense. Since the Prophets are non-linear, "What You Leave Behind" is fair game, even if the writers didn't intend for it when "Emissary" was written. Purity is represented through Sisko's pure feelings. Innocence would be Sisko's innocence during the Battle of Wolf 359. Since the Prophets are responsible for Sisko's birth, that makes him the son of the Bajorans' gods in a way, which makes him an analogue to Jesus Christ, who also suffered. Fortunately, unlike Jesus, Sisko wasn't crucified and savagely beaten endlessly.
3. I'll have to hit pause several times for the next few seconds.
- Sisko receives flashes of Jennifer when he first met her. The beginning of their life together.
- A baseball glove. Sisko and Jake playing baseball. Jake also being the son Sisko and Jennifer had together.
- Kai Opaka feeling Sisko's Pagh, representing that he's the Emissary.
- Locutus represents the end of Sisko and Jennifer's life together.
- Sisko and Jennifer kiss. Repeating representation of their life together.
- Jake's birth, showing the result of Sisko and Jennifer's love.
- Jake fishing on the holodeck, shows that he's growing up.
- A woman, presumably on the Saratoga, and most likely during Wolf 359. Like Locutus, the Saratoga represents the end of Sisko and Jennifer's life together. In conjunction with the previous shot, Jake is growing up without his mother.
5. When Picard (as Picard) says "It is responding to auditory and visual stimuli," it represents Sisko immediately thinking of Locutus when he saw Picard on the Enterprise. How? Picard has the same voice (auditory) and face (visual) as Locutus. Seeing Picard triggers Sisko into remembering the Battle of Wolf 359 and Jennifer's death (stimuli). The warm lighting represents the boiling over feelings Sisko has about this.
6. When Sisko asks, "Are you capable of communicating with me?" the image turns to Kai Opaka. Earlier, by communicating with Kai Opaka, Sisko was able to collect an Orb, find out about the celestial temple, discovered the Wormhole, and was now able to communicate with The Prophets. In contrast to Opaka, who knew what Sisko was (the Emissary), the Prophets don't know what Sisko is and asks, "What are you?" They ask what instead of who, because they know who Sisko is. The "what" can be open to interpretation. Sisko says that he's Human. I don't think that's the "what" the Prophets have in mind. I think they want to know what Sisko is and what he sees himself as on several more levels than just he's Human.
7. The next shot is of Sisko sitting next to Jake, as Jake fishes. Jake, as someone growing up, learning, and curious about the world represents the Prophets learning about and being curious about Sisko. The Jake avatar asks what time is, and that's another thing the Prophets want to learn about.
Stopping it there for now. I'll do a separate post for every scene where Sisko interacts with the Prophets. That was the first, before it cut back to the station.
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I don't have much to say about this beyond that it reminds me of when I took Film Classics in college and three of our tests involved seeing a short segment of a film we'd watched in full previously, and then having ten minutes to write basically everything we could about the excerpt we'd just rewatched. I think there was a goal to write ten 'points'. IIRC, on one of those tests I actually got an 11/10 because I thought of something the professor hadn't himself thought of. That was for the ending of My Darling Clementine.
I'm going to alternate between regular episode reviews and The Prophets, in case my overanalyzing and going Super Film School Student isn't everyone's cup of tea.
But, on a related note, in 2025, I'll (finally) be putting my first film up on my YouTube Channel. It's a very independent film, not Hollywood or anything, but you might get a kick out of it. It's about a college student who makes it his New Year's Resolution to live his life off of whatever fortune cookies say. I wrote it, directed it, and edited it.
But, on a related note, in 2025, I'll (finally) be putting my first film up on my YouTube Channel. It's a very independent film, not Hollywood or anything, but you might get a kick out of it. It's about a college student who makes it his New Year's Resolution to live his life off of whatever fortune cookies say. I wrote it, directed it, and edited it.
I completely agree. This is why I like the weekly release schedule for new shows.
Update: I'm 10 episodes away from finishing Voyager. I want that completely out of the way before I continue. What can I say that's relevant to DS9?
When I got up to "False Profits" (VOY), my takeaway was: This is what happens when you have TNG Ferengi and you give them things from DS9 like references to Latinum and the Grand Nagus, but without learning anything from DS9. They were cartoon characters with no distinct personalities. When they had Neelix pretend to be the Grand Proxy, I think he fit right in with these types of Ferengi because of how goofy he was.
I would say the VOY Ferengi are worse than the TNG Ferengi. Why? Because in TNG, the writers didn't know any better. Especially before DS9 was in existence. With VOY, they did know better. Or, if they didn't, they could've consulted with the DS9 writers and listened to what they had to say.
__________
I might as well also talk about "Initiations" (VOY) while I'm at it. The episode with Aaron Eisenberg. Kar is basically what Nog would be like if he were a Kazon. Right down to wanting to be respected by those he looks up to and working hard to earn it; no matter what those who doubt him have to say. Not an episode I'll go out of my way to watch again at random, but it was okay for what it was.
When I got up to "False Profits" (VOY), my takeaway was: This is what happens when you have TNG Ferengi and you give them things from DS9 like references to Latinum and the Grand Nagus, but without learning anything from DS9. They were cartoon characters with no distinct personalities. When they had Neelix pretend to be the Grand Proxy, I think he fit right in with these types of Ferengi because of how goofy he was.
I would say the VOY Ferengi are worse than the TNG Ferengi. Why? Because in TNG, the writers didn't know any better. Especially before DS9 was in existence. With VOY, they did know better. Or, if they didn't, they could've consulted with the DS9 writers and listened to what they had to say.
__________
I might as well also talk about "Initiations" (VOY) while I'm at it. The episode with Aaron Eisenberg. Kar is basically what Nog would be like if he were a Kazon. Right down to wanting to be respected by those he looks up to and working hard to earn it; no matter what those who doubt him have to say. Not an episode I'll go out of my way to watch again at random, but it was okay for what it was.
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The nicest thing I can say about False Profits is that it's not my least favourite episode of Voyager. In fact, I wouldn't even put it in my bottom 10!
I'd rank it as the 11th worst episode of the whole series.
I'd rank it as the 11th worst episode of the whole series.
Huge Missed Opportunity: Samantha Wildman said that her husband was stationed on DS9. It would've been interesting to see Mr. Wildman on DS9. He could've been a recurring character with his own story arc, grieving what he'd think was the loss of his wife, he could find another love interest... and then in DS9 Season 6 (which runs parallel to VOY Season 4), he'd find out that Samantha is still alive and he has a daughter!
It could've happened, if these shows had run in closer tandem with each other. But it wasn't meant to be. As it was, I'm just glad VOY acknowledged the fall of the Maquis in the Alpha Quadrant.
It could've happened, if these shows had run in closer tandem with each other. But it wasn't meant to be. As it was, I'm just glad VOY acknowledged the fall of the Maquis in the Alpha Quadrant.
Hey, the VOY Ferengi may have been a couple of clowns, but what does that make Tuvok's security team then? For that matter, the rest of Our Heroes don't fare particularly well in this episode.
I definitely won't argue with that. It was like, "Let's have absolutely everything go wrong so the Ferengi end up back in the Alpha Quadrant but Voyager stays in the Delta Quadrant!"
"They never get off the island!"
For those reasons and more, "FALSE PROFITS" is a strong contender for Worst Episode of VOY.
Most definitely top 10 worst... possibly top 5.
True. Those Ferengi may be cartoon clowns, but let's not forget the VOY crew is consistently being outsmarted by them in this ep, so they would even come off worse.
But I don't dislike this episode, as it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously in the first place.
But I don't dislike this episode, as it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously in the first place.
Making Janeway and the crew look like complete idiots for being outsmarted by those two (really, only the one) Ferengi just is too far for me to find any fun in it. It's one of the primary reasons why I have such a problem with TNG's "Rascals".
(And honestly, VOY's other Ferengi episode, "INSIDE MAN", is just terrible, too... another among the worst of the show. Truly, only DS9 did the Ferengi any real justice.)
To balance this out and looking at when I thought VOY handled DS9 elements well:
"Nothing Human" (VOY) did the Cardassians justice. Krell acted just like how I imagine a Cardassian doctor would. He cuts moral corners in order to save his patients. Krell also tries hard to get The Doctor to come around to his line of thinking. Janeway making the tough call of ordering Krell's procedure be used to save Torres is in-line with her character. Torres being furious about the way she was cured was also in-character. I can see Janeway's POV, but I sided with Torres.
The Holographic Bajoran in "Flesh and Blood" (VOY), Iden, also rang true. And the Breen were the Breen. Insert Breen talking sound effect!
"Nothing Human" (VOY) did the Cardassians justice. Krell acted just like how I imagine a Cardassian doctor would. He cuts moral corners in order to save his patients. Krell also tries hard to get The Doctor to come around to his line of thinking. Janeway making the tough call of ordering Krell's procedure be used to save Torres is in-line with her character. Torres being furious about the way she was cured was also in-character. I can see Janeway's POV, but I sided with Torres.
The Holographic Bajoran in "Flesh and Blood" (VOY), Iden, also rang true. And the Breen were the Breen. Insert Breen talking sound effect!
It's true that I find Rascals problematic for that very reason. I have less of a problem with False profits, but that's mainly because I like the kind of humor more and that's entirely subjective, you are right that it is as bad as Rascals in that perspective.
Not sure why VOY would be doing the Ferengi a particular disservice, though. I'd say it's mainly the crew that's shown in a very incompetent light. I mean, let's be honest, most Ferengi-centered episodes in DS9 are at least somewhat silly, too. Quark getting into problems because he thought he was going to die and sold his body parts in advance? His moogie that just so happens to become the lover of the Grand Nagus? Quark mounting a blundering prisoner exchange to save his Moogie from the Dominion? (I'm just picking a few examples, and not even the worst).
While there certainly are aspects of the Ferengi that are rather silly, not all of the Ferengi characters were written silly. Brunt was anything but silly. Rom, while written as an idiot early in the show, grew quite well. Nog has arguably the best character growth arc in the entire franchise. Gaila was written pretty seriously written, too.
I do agree that the Ferengi themselves were not completely badly serviced on VOY, but none of their Ferengi characters could really be taken seriously, and if you can't take a villain seriously, it's hard to make an episode be anything more than tedious, at best. (For proof, look at TNG's "The Last Outpost". Once you see their behavior on the planet, it took YEARS and another tv series for the Ferengi to even remotely be taken seriously... and even then, only a few select characters.)
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