I didn’t say Picard demoted him… merely that there’d be no reason for him to do so, since Riker hadn’t done anything wrong. So the option of Picard demoting him as an explanation doesn’t really work.
Riker's rank change in Best of Both Worlds Question
- Thread starter tim0122
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I read how you wrote it as implying Picard might've done it despite having no reason. Sorry for the mix up.
The only sensible explanation for a reason why Riker lost rank is that in some way the field commission was contingent upon assuming command of a permanent starship captain post & remaining in his current post was essentially refusing permanent promotion
Which doesn't really make a great deal of sense, given that the Galaxy-class has a routine crew complement over an order of magnitude greater than other postings that apparently "warrant a captain billet".
Due to the point above, I have issues with this option, but I'd agree that it's the best of the bad options.
I agree, but that's unfortunately the only route I see. Having multiple captains, or adjusting the billet due to the experience needed to run a Galaxy class, even as an executive officer, would make sense.
Of course, Riker stepping out to his own command makes even more sense since Starfleet just lost so many ships and likely experienced captains.
And especially since he had proven to everyone, including himself, that he had what it took.
Still, field promotion is just that, a temporary action. If it's not confirmed, it's not actually a demotion, because the person was never officially promoted.
EDIT: Remember also that Riker's promotion was not the only one granted; indeed, he granted the other himself. Shelby wore three pips while she was acting first officer, a job she had to surrender. However, she probably either kept her third pip or didn't lose it for long: she was already considered worthy of being first officer on the flagship, and that was before she helped save Earth. She might have even been able to finagle her own ship, and add a fourth pip.
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Picard should have never been given command of the Enterprise back from Starfleet command. He was compromised. Riker had been promoted and given the ship. You snooze, you lose.
Da fuq? You basically just said someone who has been kidnapped has no right to resume their job after they're rescued.
Resume the exact job and exact same positing? I think it needs to be questioned, or evaluated for potentially a different role.
And it's even a dramatic point in First Contact that Starfleet doesn't trust Picard vs. the Borg due to his history.
Correct. Its not a right. Mentally they would not be the same after the experience. Its not his successor's fault that it all happened. Star Fleet had already counted him as dead and were ready to MAKE it happen. He singlehandedly was the face of probably the biggest catastraphe in Federation memory. He was compromised in every way. He should not have been put back in command.
What if it was just an extended medical issue? Even in the real world now, if you are out for too long, and are in a managing position, there would be no guarantee you would be returning to your same position, especially if the company is doing well with your replacement.
You could have made that point without the "you snooze you lose" part. That makes it sound like you think the whole thing was Picard's fault and he should be punished accordingly.
Sounds like you work for a crappy company. Where I work, the company is required give a manager back the exact same position they held if they're off for medical reasons, regardless how long they're off, provided they still want it.
That's not exactly an analogous circumstance though. Picard in BoBW is more like a POW, and frankly while it's possible he'd someday recover from his captivity, even well enough to perhaps return to duty, it's still also possible that just like real POWs there'd be psychological effects for maybe the rest of his life, even some that might hinder his future capability to command.
I'd be concerned about that even from just his Cardassian imprisonment & torture, let alone what the Borg did to him, which as we later see, still had some kind of imprint on him, enough that I'm not entirely against the fact that Starfleet wouldn't want him & the E anywhere near the epicenter of that conflict in ST:FC, even though he'd prove an asset instead of a liability.
The way I explain BoBW away is that they did spend some weeks with fancy 24th century rehab for Picard, enough that once he'd grounded himself, back on the homestead, he seemed normal enough, but more importantly, Starfleet's core of starship captains was now devastated, and Riker refusing to step up was a further loss.
So, perhaps they let Picard back so soon because they were willing to take the risk, being that they were in a desperate spot for captains. Who knows? If you wanted, you could even suggest that Riker turning down command at that time might've been specifically because he didn't want Picard to lose his commission
If he had wanted to stay a captain, he might even have been preferred for the D over Picard, at that point, & that last scene with Shelby was actually after he had already made his choice & neither of them knew the sacrifice he'd made for Picard. By refusing, he might have given them less options, & him staying aboard might have given them more confidence in the overall command crew despite Picard.
In my experience the traditional wording is an equivalent position, but not necessarily the exact same position. No company should have to be locked in stasis while an employee is out for months. Of course, "equivalent" is open to interpretation, but obviously they should be receiving the same compensation and benefits upon their return as well as a position of similar if not identical status.
He may have been "the face" but that's it.
Picard had no part in the attack, the Borg stole what he knew and that's it.
That is my experience as well. A position is not frozen because a person might return, and sometimes they don't. The organization must continue to function as must the person. I would not have handed Picard the Enterprise and would have looked at possible promotion staff position at Starfleet Command, similar to Sisko. More responsibility, but able to ascertain if therapy had its desired effect.
And, to be fair, it never did. Starfleet still did not trust Picard in to First Contact. What?
I agree that realistically, Picard probably shouldn't have been allowed to return to captain the flagship so quickly. Simply because there's no telling what residual effect the Borg assimilation might have in terms of trauma, or perhaps there might even be deeply hidden undetectable Borg 'malware' that hasn't been removed and is only dormant for now.
I'm also not convinced Riker necessarily would have kept the captain's job in that case after the Borg threat was over. Yes, he has what it takes, and he also knows the Enterprise and its crew bestbest (*), but Starfleet might decide that a very senior, seasoned Captain with, say 15 years of experience as a captain is more fitting for the job. This is the flagship after all, and the most senior Captaincy in Starfleet. Riker, in that case, might get his first 'real' captain position on a smaller vessel.
(*in many cases, this isn't the most important requirement. Compare to 2.5 years later, when Riker doesn't get the 'field job' of captaining the Enterprise when Picard is sent on a mission, and they bring in Jellico instead.)
I'm also not convinced Riker necessarily would have kept the captain's job in that case after the Borg threat was over. Yes, he has what it takes, and he also knows the Enterprise and its crew bestbest (*), but Starfleet might decide that a very senior, seasoned Captain with, say 15 years of experience as a captain is more fitting for the job. This is the flagship after all, and the most senior Captaincy in Starfleet. Riker, in that case, might get his first 'real' captain position on a smaller vessel.
(*in many cases, this isn't the most important requirement. Compare to 2.5 years later, when Riker doesn't get the 'field job' of captaining the Enterprise when Picard is sent on a mission, and they bring in Jellico instead.)
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By the same token of Riker’s rank change, what about Wesley? In “Ménage à Troi”, Picard gives him a field commission to full Ensign. But in “The First Duty”, he’s a cadet, and Picard calls him a cadet. Wouldn’t he still be an Ensign? There’s no reason to demote him… at least not until the Nova Squadron incident.
Yup. As soon as he got his red uniform he was as legit as it comes.
I kind of hate the traveler stuff, as it undermines his entire storyline of Starfleet progression.
Although that’s more about Jellico’s experience for that specific mission. The next time that Picard is missing - presumed dead, Riker assumes acting command.
When is that, which episode?
Gambit.
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