Kurtzman intentionally killed Legacy?

[ananta]

I wasn’t so much upset by Ro’s death as I was by that hideously fake looking wig they plonked on her head.

 

[Tosk]

Similarly, while I was mildly annoyed that they killed off Hugh I was more miffed that he has the knife sticking in his neck in a shot before she throws it.

 

[Danja]

Similarly, while I was mildly annoyed that they killed off Hugh I was more miffed that he has the knife sticking in his neck in a shot before she throws it.

That's lousy editing.

 

[AntonyF]

The writing in S3 was beyond sloppy, the fact that there is a percentage of fandom which has idolized and defied Matalas for this when they have vilified and slandered the writers of the previous seasons and other Trek shows for less proves for those, all they need is some flashy nostalgia and they're orgasmically satisfied.

Each to their own? I mean... I agree with you and don't like Picard S3. But if some people do then that's fine too. Same for that pile of shite Discovery.

I owned Trek forums online in the late 1990s, we were bickering of TNG VS DS9 vs VOY.

TOS fans were going ape shit over TNG in 1987.

This is what we do as fans. I think as long as we respect we like different things and are calm and polite we're all good.

 

[fireproof78]

Can that not be applied to Hugh?

I don't think so. I think it was a dramatic reduction of allies.

 

[Dukhat]

Hugh’s death was pointless and stupid and only served to allow 7 of 9 to pilot the Borg cube instead of him, and was just another factor of how pointless and stupid season 1 was.

Tasha’s death happened because the actor didn’t want to continue playing the character anymore, and instead of writing her out of the show, they killed her off because they knew the audience would not have expected that.

Two completely different things.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Hugh’s death was pointless and stupid and only served to allow 7 of 9 to pilot the Borg cube instead of him, and was just another factor of how pointless and stupid season 1 was.

Tasha’s death happened because the actor didn’t want to continue playing the character anymore, and instead of writing her out of the show, they killed her off because they knew the audience would not have expected that.

Two completely different things.

We can only judge the story with what's on the screen.
Two similar things when done that way.

 

[Danja]

Hugh’s death was pointless and stupid and only served to allow 7 of 9 to pilot the Borg cube instead of him, and was just another factor of how pointless and stupid season 1 was.

Tasha’s death happened because the actor didn’t want to continue playing the character anymore, and instead of writing her out of the show, they killed her off because they knew the audience would not have expected that.

Two completely different things.

MEOW!

Oh, the shade!

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[fireproof78]

Hugh’s death was pointless and stupid and only served to allow 7 of 9 to pilot the Borg cube instead of him, and was just another factor of how pointless and stupid season 1 was.

Tasha’s death happened because the actor didn’t want to continue playing the character anymore, and instead of writing her out of the show, they killed her off because they knew the audience would not have expected that.

Two completely different things.

I took it more like the allies death in Serenity. Reducing the assets available to Picard to oppose the Zhat Vash.

 

[Dukhat]

We can only judge the story with what's on the screen.

Really? Who made that rule?

Two similar things when done that way.

Then let me be more on-screen specific: Tasha’s death was pointless and stupid in a good way. Hugh’s death was pointless and stupid in a bad way.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I'm almost positive that this was the original intention. But for some inexplicable (and probably stupid) reason, it was changed. And Frontier Day being the launch of the NX-01 'and the day we consider to be the founding of Starfleet' makes little sense. Because whether you account for Earth Starfleet which was in existence before the launch, or the Federation Starfleet which was incorporated in 2161, saying that we're celebrating it on a completely different date is dumb.

I still think that if the whole thing was supposed to be about the launch of the NX-01, they'd have brought it to Earth and ceremoniously shown it being launched to commemorate its 250th anniversary, instead of that whole nonsense with the Enterprise-F.

Yeah, that's the thing. Just the fact that the NX-01 was sitting around in the Starfleet Museum in some other part of the galaxy while the celebration surrounding it was going on in Earth orbit sounds suspiciously like something got changed halfway through production.

I have my issues with the writers choosing Frontier Day over Federation Day, but...no.

Geordi was clearly concerned about the fleet being in one place on Frontier Day. It's possible that he pulled rank and decided that the NX-01 was not going to make the journey. As anything bad happening to the NX-01 would deeply damage Starfleet morale. And Geordi was respected enough to not be overruled by Janeway, Shelby, and the other admirals. This then forced them to use the Ent-F for the ceremony as a substitute instead.

Technically the Earth Starfleet existed as early as 2132, so Starfleet's "real" 250th Anniversary should have been in 2382, but it is what it is. Sloppy chronology or not, at least it gave the NX-01 a huge name drop and made it the center of Frontier Day.

The one way it makes sense is if Starfleet prior to 2151 was purely for experimental projects and to allow real world experience for personnel training. And the launch of the NX-01 was the start of an actual fleet for Starfleet. And that specifically is what the celebration was really about.

 

[Dukhat]

I have my issues with the writers choosing Frontier Day over Federation Day, but...no.

Geordi was clearly concerned about the fleet being in one place on Frontier Day. It's possible that he pulled rank and decided that the NX-01 was not going to make the journey. As anything bad happening to the NX-01 would deeply damage Starfleet morale. And Geordi was respected enough to not be overruled by Janeway, Shelby, and the other admirals. This then forced them to use the Ent-F for the ceremony as a substitute instead.

Well, that’s just conjecture that was not mentioned in the show. Because Geordi being the custodian of the museum does not give him the authority to overrule the Starfleet admiralty. If anything, if they didn’t want to move the NX-01, they should have had Frontier Day and the fleet stationed at the museum, not around Earth.

 

[Firebird]

I have my issues with the writers choosing Frontier Day over Federation Day, but...no.

Geordi was clearly concerned about the fleet being in one place on Frontier Day. It's possible that he pulled rank and decided that the NX-01 was not going to make the journey. As anything bad happening to the NX-01 would deeply damage Starfleet morale. And Geordi was respected enough to not be overruled by Janeway, Shelby, and the other admirals. This then forced them to use the Ent-F for the ceremony as a substitute instead.


The one way it makes sense is if Starfleet prior to 2151 was purely for experimental projects and to allow real world experience for personnel training. And the launch of the NX-01 was the start of an actual fleet for Starfleet. And that specifically is what the celebration was really about.

Having to do this much head canon to make sense of the situation still means it's bad writing.

 

[HotRod]

Geordi was clearly concerned about the fleet being in one place on Frontier Day. It's possible that he pulled rank and decided that the NX-01 was not going to make the journey. As anything bad happening to the NX-01 would deeply damage Starfleet morale. And Geordi was respected enough to not be overruled by Janeway, Shelby, and the other admirals. This then forced them to use the Ent-F for the ceremony as a substitute instead.

Yeah.... no. Geordi was a Commodore. If they're having a celebration about the launch of the NX-01, and the top brass expected her to be there, Geordi would be overruled pretty damn quick.

The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

Admiral #1: "Let's have a massive celebration to commemorate the launch of the NX-01!"

Admiral #2: "That sounds like a great idea! Should we bring her back to Earth so she can actually be part of the celebration?"

Admiral #1: "Nah, that,'d be silly."

Admiral #2: "Are you sure? I mean, it's just a few lightyears away at the Fleet Museum. It wouldn't take much to bring her here...."

Admiral #1: "Nah, why bother?"

Admiral #2: "Well, we're celebrating her launch? Right? She still exists and is space worthy. It would be nothing to send a tug and bring her home."

Admiral #1: "Meh, I don't see the point."

Admiral #2: "Okay, what if we went to her? Let's have the celebration at the museum, surrounded by Starfleet history!"

Admiral #1: "Nope. Has to be at Earth."

Admiral #2: "Why?"

Admiral #1: "Why not?"

Admiral Matalas: "I know, let's have the Enterprise-F that we are decommissioning, even though it's still pretty new and looks in perfect condition, stand in for the NX-01!"

Admiral #1: "That's a perfect idea!"

Admiral #2: But what about the NX-01? Shouldn't we involve her in some way? It's a celebration in her honor!"

Admiral #1: "who cares?"

 

[FederationHistorian]

Having to do this much head canon to make sense of the situation still means it's bad writing.

Or it's another example of sloppy writing that plagued the run of PIC.

Like adding a line that Geordi is reluctant to allow Archer's ship to be present for Frontier Day celebrations would have been so hard.

Yeah.... no. Geordi was a Commodore. If they're having a celebration about the launch of the NX-01, and the top brass expected her to be there, Geordi would be overruled pretty damn quick.

Geordi was just puling a reverse-Kirk.

Instead of disobeying admirals and stealing a ship, he was disobeying admirals to keep a ship safely put.

 

[fireproof78]

Fan fiction is amazing sometimes.

 

[HotRod]

Or it's another example of sloppy writing that plagued the run of PIC.

Like adding a line that Geordi is reluctant to allow Archer's ship to be present for Frontier Day celebrations would have been so hard.


Geordi was just puling a reverse-Kirk.

Instead of disobeying admirals and stealing a ship, he was disobeying admirals to keep a ship safely put.

When Kirk stole a ship, it was to save his best friend, who also happened to be the son of the Vulcan Ambassador. Even with Sarak's connections, had his mission gone exactly as planned, Kirk would have at best ended up kicked outta Starfleet. More likely, he'd be serving time in New Zealand. It was only the events of Voyage Home that saved Kirk's ass.

Geordi disobeying a direct order to hand over the NX-01, for no good reason beyond his own opinions, would have ended with him being Court-martialed.

 

[The Wormhole]

And Geordi was respected enough to not be overruled by Janeway, Shelby, and the other admirals.

So wait, he's respected enough by Starfleet's top brass that they agree to his wish not to bring a museum ship to Earth for celebrations of the anniversary of its launch because if something happened it would damage morale, yet these same officers ignored his warnings about networking the entire fleet together and assembling the entire fleet in the Sol system due to his belief that it either could decimate Starfleet and both could ruin it? Yeah, no.

 

[fireproof78]

When Kirk stole a ship, it was to save his best friend, who also happened to be the son of the Vulcan Ambassador. Even with Sarak's connections, had his mission gone exactly as planned, Kirk would have at best ended up kicked outta Starfleet. More likely, he'd be serving time in New Zealand. It was only the events of Voyage Home that saved Kirk's ass.

Geordi disobeying a direct order to hand over the NX-01, for no good reason beyond his own opinions, would have ended with him being Court-martialed.

Yup. Kirk lucked out.

Geordi had no legal or moral objection to such an order. It wouldn't be noble, it wouldn't be standing up, it would be disobeying a direct order because he doesn't feel like it.

Even in an organization like Starfleet insubordination cannot be tolerated.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, the most Geordi could do is send a memo of protest like he said he did regarding the fleet networking and having the entire fleet present in Sol for the celebrations. And given he was ignored with the latter two, there's no reason to expect Starfleet would have decided to agree to leave the NX-01 out of the celebrations "out of respect."