One of the things about that episode that stands out for me in an understated way is the unsettling image of Picard and Data approaching the E-D in their shuttle and finding the ship not just adrift but rotating through space. I'm not sure we'd ever seen something like that before or since.
Re-evaluating season seven
- Thread starter AntonyF
- Start date
"Thine Own Self" -- while the story takes great care in setting up some of the plot, including ditching the communicator to trap Data there, there is a big plot hole involving the ability of speaking different languages. Overlook that, and this episode is an underrated gem that hits all the right notes, with much reward. It's paced fairly well, Data is rockin' that outfit and messy hair, and Troi gets promoted by ordering a chief engineer to fix something instead of delegating the task to Engineering where the chief would order someone else to fix it.
"they killed him because he was different" is one of many little tinged moments that elevate the plot.
The music continues season 7's uptick in tonal quality.
The allegory by the alien doctor, citing Data's skin and eye color makin him demonic, harks back to what some critics had thought Spock was.
Even better, same alien Doctor uses "reason by analogy" - which TNG does about 347 times throughout its run. But is so slyly expositioned that one can't help but to love it. (Yeah, "expositioned" isn't a word. Until now. If "tho" has become one, then so can "expositioned".
)
Best of all, the little girl asking Data if a place exists where everyone's happy-- a parody would have Data cite "The USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-D". Data's real answer is better. Here's my answer, in song form:
(I miss 60s clothing styles-- so garish yet feels natural, not outlandish or clownish
)
(Bellbottoms, wide lapels, AND 90s shoulder pads - all rolled into one! Dang, so that's what the combination of all three looks like!!)
"they killed him because he was different" is one of many little tinged moments that elevate the plot.
The music continues season 7's uptick in tonal quality.
The allegory by the alien doctor, citing Data's skin and eye color makin him demonic, harks back to what some critics had thought Spock was.
Even better, same alien Doctor uses "reason by analogy" - which TNG does about 347 times throughout its run. But is so slyly expositioned that one can't help but to love it. (Yeah, "expositioned" isn't a word. Until now. If "tho" has become one, then so can "expositioned".
)Best of all, the little girl asking Data if a place exists where everyone's happy-- a parody would have Data cite "The USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-D". Data's real answer is better. Here's my answer, in song form:
(I miss 60s clothing styles-- so garish yet feels natural, not outlandish or clownish
)(Bellbottoms, wide lapels, AND 90s shoulder pads - all rolled into one! Dang, so that's what the combination of all three looks like!!)
Ehhh. Troi orders a hologram of the chief engineer to fix something. I liked the puzzle-solving aspect of it, but the emotional resonance of the resolution fell short for me. If there'd been a way to have Troi not realize it was a holoprogram, that might have made this very compelling.
Granted the KM is also just a simulation, and perhaps in the 24th century it too takes place on a holodeck, but at least in the 23rd century it did involve interactions with real people.
My issue with Troi there is because she got promoted due to Riker giving her the hint, which Troi realized seconds after he left her quarters. She passed all the other parts without a problem, but that one she couldn't after multiple attempts. She herself said she didn't have what it took to order someone to their death to save everyone else, and as noble a sentiment as that is, in a command position or situation, you have to weigh such things... and if you can't make that decision, then you just got everyone else killed. Ultimately, it's why she didn't really earn that rank. Even Data knew there were times such a thing was necessary... in "Redemption II", when he ordered the phasers to come online right before discovering the Romulans, it was about to flood several decks with radiation. But that decision not only stopped the Romulans from going over the Klingon border, but it exposes their involvement with the Duras family, and ended the civil war and kept the alliance with the Federation. Many more lives were saved. It risked the lives of some of the crew, but it certainly saved many, many more had he not acted.
Data, quite honestly, earned the full Commander rank before Troi did.
Data, quite honestly, earned the full Commander rank before Troi did.
But that's just one aspect of command. Data could easily take a utilitarian decision to send someone to their death because it has no emotional resonance for him.
But how would he fare with actually commanding people, bringing them along with him, influencing and developing a crew?
Redemption suggests not very well, because he essentially just ignored the crew. This was a unique situation because they didn't trust him or know him, and time was of the essence. But he doesn't help himself.
He obviously reflected on this because he makes a better fist of it in Gambit, but some of the same instincts are still on display. Ultimately Worf is being as unprofessional as Hobson, even though he does know Data very well. It suggests Worf has some pretty deep-seated unconscious biases that make him equally unsuited for command, but again Data struggles to understand the emotional drivers of his crew.
Spock the same issues in The Galileo Seven of course, ultimately saving the day by making a highly illogical leap of faith. I'm not sure Data would have done the same thing.
Troi undoubtedly would do well at leading a team and understanding how to influence them, but she struggles to make the Kobayashi Maru decision because she's been on the Enterprise for seven years, and they always beat the odds.
Her previous command experience in Disaster is exactly one of those situations! That episode ends with Ro apologising for doubting her, which I always thought was wrong - she should have said "you got lucky and could just as easily have got us all killed". Deanna ends the episode deciding that command isn't for her, which is a big shame. It could have been the start of a character arc for her. Thine Own Self is a long overdue follow up.
But how would he fare with actually commanding people, bringing them along with him, influencing and developing a crew?
Redemption suggests not very well, because he essentially just ignored the crew. This was a unique situation because they didn't trust him or know him, and time was of the essence. But he doesn't help himself.
He obviously reflected on this because he makes a better fist of it in Gambit, but some of the same instincts are still on display. Ultimately Worf is being as unprofessional as Hobson, even though he does know Data very well. It suggests Worf has some pretty deep-seated unconscious biases that make him equally unsuited for command, but again Data struggles to understand the emotional drivers of his crew.
Spock the same issues in The Galileo Seven of course, ultimately saving the day by making a highly illogical leap of faith. I'm not sure Data would have done the same thing.
Troi undoubtedly would do well at leading a team and understanding how to influence them, but she struggles to make the Kobayashi Maru decision because she's been on the Enterprise for seven years, and they always beat the odds.
Her previous command experience in Disaster is exactly one of those situations! That episode ends with Ro apologising for doubting her, which I always thought was wrong - she should have said "you got lucky and could just as easily have got us all killed". Deanna ends the episode deciding that command isn't for her, which is a big shame. It could have been the start of a character arc for her. Thine Own Self is a long overdue follow up.
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I don't think that's really fair... I took it more that she was just not judging what the mission was about. She was so obsessed with technical detail, that there was a technical answer. I think he nudged her which then gave her impetus to just come at the problem differently. Ultimately she came to the right conclusion.
Why a counsellor needs such a high rank in the first place is beyond me though. First officer, CMO and counsellor all as commanders.
That's a fair point... although by that extension why do other ships and stations not have one?
Well we have a very small pool of evidence from which to draw, but obviously the Galaxy-class is uniquely large.
I imagine the XO handles the personnel side on smaller ships, but when there are over 1,000 people aboard it becomes a more necessary role. There's also the civilian contingent to consider.
Ezri came from the Destiny, where she was an assistant counsellor. We're not sure what type of ship that was, but it could have been a Galaxy. Deanna may have had a staff that we never saw.
The main reason that Troi is on the ship is because Picard wanted her and rated her advice. She certainly proves her value over the years.
Coming at it from a different angle is a fair point, but she should not have gotten help from Riker, the person giving her the test. That's a conflict of interest, at the least.
But to expand on your point... a commanding officer (or bridge officer, in this case) should be able to come at problems from various angles already. Which Troi has been able to do in the past, so while I don't doubt she could have gotten there eventually, it should have been on her own, not with Riker's hint. I think it would have been more effective if she reached that conclusion herself.
Regarding her high rank and being counselor... the Commander rank was so she could be a bridge officer. Most likely, she hit her rank ceiling with Lt. Commander without having 'bridge officer' as part of her qualifications. She probably had every other box checked to get her the Commander rank, except that... and that kept her at Lt. Cmdr. ever since at least the pilot. (We don't know if she was already that rank before coming aboard or if she got that rank FOR coming aboard.)
Crusher as a Commander... I think was also unneeded, but she had the qualifications. (As proven in "Descent, Part II".) She even said in the teaser of "Thine Own Self" that she likes to do bridge shifts once in a while to maintain her knowledge of operations. (Might also be possible it's a requirement of that rank...log in some time as in charge of the bridge for some shifts within a period of time to maintain the qualification.)
I always thought a CMO on a ship like that could be a commander regardless of bridge qualifications. McCoy had the same rank in the TOS movies without any hint of command experience, as did Pulaski for that matter. Possibly Crusher has the line duty qualifications in addition to her rank, not because of it.
Beverly must have had some command qualifications because she commanded the Enterprise in 'Descent' part 2.
A possibility and a valid observation, but there is 70 years difference between the TOS movies and TNG premiering. Qualifucation requirements could have easily been changed in that time.
Which could be true, but Pulaski has the same rank at the same time, on the same ship, as Crusher but says "I'm not a Bridge officer" in Where Silence Has Lease.
Maybe the gems/clunkers ratio is a bit worse in season 7 than in previous seasons, but imo, there are still quite a few episodes I like a lot:
"Phantasms", "Parallels", "The Pegasus", "Thine Own Self", "Lower Decks", "Emergence" and of course "All Good Things".
There are even a couple "lost family members" episodes I like, because coming towards the end of the series, it helps tying up the characters, in some cases coming full circle ... I like how they wrapped up endings for Alexander, for Wesley and for Ro (which, of course, were not final endings, but nobody knew that in 1994). And I really liked Picard dealing with his "son", while the episode nicely referenced back to season 1 (I always had the impression despite claiming to be uncomfortable around kids, Picard actually would have loved to have a son and regretted not having one -- otherwise, I couldn't explain his behavior towards Wesley, and GEN then kind of confirmed it, before PIC season 3 wrapped it up). I liked that Worf got a human stepbrother, and I also liked the idea of using the holodeck to evacuate that people.
As for the bad episodes, "Liaisons" and "Sub Rosa" are terrible imo, and some episodes go way too far into soapy emotional territory for my taste, like "The Dark Page" or "Eye of the Beholder". That Data got yet another android relative felt unnecessary, imo. "Genesis" comes up with such a far-fetched explanation I can't enjoy it.
Most others are "meh" imo, can't say I find "Interface", "Gambit" or "Force of Nature" particularly interesting. "Attached" has a few nice Picard/Crusher scenes, though, and I can even somewhat enjoy "Masks", despite its far-fetched premise, because Spiner's acting is just fun to watch.
So, on the bottom line ... perhaps a few more clunkers and a few less really great episodes, but season 7 was hardly a sudden, massive drop in quality, imo.
"Phantasms", "Parallels", "The Pegasus", "Thine Own Self", "Lower Decks", "Emergence" and of course "All Good Things".
There are even a couple "lost family members" episodes I like, because coming towards the end of the series, it helps tying up the characters, in some cases coming full circle ... I like how they wrapped up endings for Alexander, for Wesley and for Ro (which, of course, were not final endings, but nobody knew that in 1994). And I really liked Picard dealing with his "son", while the episode nicely referenced back to season 1 (I always had the impression despite claiming to be uncomfortable around kids, Picard actually would have loved to have a son and regretted not having one -- otherwise, I couldn't explain his behavior towards Wesley, and GEN then kind of confirmed it, before PIC season 3 wrapped it up). I liked that Worf got a human stepbrother, and I also liked the idea of using the holodeck to evacuate that people.
As for the bad episodes, "Liaisons" and "Sub Rosa" are terrible imo, and some episodes go way too far into soapy emotional territory for my taste, like "The Dark Page" or "Eye of the Beholder". That Data got yet another android relative felt unnecessary, imo. "Genesis" comes up with such a far-fetched explanation I can't enjoy it.
Most others are "meh" imo, can't say I find "Interface", "Gambit" or "Force of Nature" particularly interesting. "Attached" has a few nice Picard/Crusher scenes, though, and I can even somewhat enjoy "Masks", despite its far-fetched premise, because Spiner's acting is just fun to watch.
So, on the bottom line ... perhaps a few more clunkers and a few less really great episodes, but season 7 was hardly a sudden, massive drop in quality, imo.
Very true. In her case, the Commander rank could very well be she was in Starfleet for an even greater number of years than Crusher. Possibly getting that rank is achieveable without having those qualifications... just would take much longer. (We did see Barclay in the future as a full Commander when he was teaching. We obviously don't know what he did in his career post VOY and the beginning of the future in "ENDGAME", but considering what we know of him and where he always tended to work, I doubt he took the Bridge Officers test. I know that future doesn't really count, but it made me wonder as I was thinking of a quick example.)
Yeah exactly, I don't think we are saying that taking the Bridge Officers test is the only way to be promoted past Lt. Commander, but that it is an option and a potential fast track for officers not on the command track.
More or less, yeah. Season 7's hit ratio was wider...
IMHO: Ro > Wesley > that family of rats in the basement > a bunch of possums > a bunch of newborn guppies that just got eaten > Alexander.
That would make sense, though he did go out of his way to avoid the kid in the shuttle in "Pen Pals".
Worf's stepbrother and the episode he's in ("Homeward') are fairly good and buck the trend. A shame that INS took this episode and a couple others, made a movie out of them, and made it less than the sum of their parts... apparently, INS went through a lot of rewrites and an earlier idea sounded far better:
The original idea from Piller definitely had something closer to an epic multi-movie vibe, a la Kirk's 1979-91 run, what with the original INS to have ended on a cliffhanger and all...
But did we need Jason Vigo and a rehash of Daimon Bok and his reeeevenge (again...)?
Yeah, the soapy does it no good. "Liaisons" is superficial and unintentionally entertaining, but the others definitely don't resonate at all.
"Gambit" was 1.3 episodes at most and definitely underwhelming. "Force of Nature" went nowhere. "Masks"'s premise is far-fetched, albeit less so than "The Immunity Syndrome" of TOS fame (another one which I adore), but Brent Spiner does make it come alive. It really is the handling. I do wonder if some people adore these "meh" or "hated" episodes because of their tone.
The more I've rewatched, I've noticed an uptick in music quality in 7 compared to a lot of 5 and 6. Story quality seems on par, if not more daring, risk-taking with sci-fi ideas instead of "soapbox of the week trifles", and even giving beloved characters an edgy past (Riker's being most prominent).
If anything, a couple retakes were needed as, in "Thine Own Self", there's a glaring issue about the lack of universal translator and it's more than obvious that the anvil is a lightweight plastic prop that even "Doctor Who" would have done a retake over. But overlook the quibbles and the positives grossly outweigh than negatives, it's really that good an episode - or at least is a lot more interesting than so many from seasons 5 and 6 combined. I vaguely recall a couple other stories where something seemed out of place and how they could or should have done a retake, and that might be where some of the "the show is tired and worn out" comments start to kick in. TNG wouldn't have been that lackadaisical in previous seasons. Then again, the standardization of the A/B plots and cookie cutter treknobabble was starting to become prominent and VOY showcased these attributes way too often...
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