Re-evaluating season seven

[Qonundrum]

Watched Liaisons the other day and was surprised to see all the ‘aliens don’t understand certain universal concepts’ shit dragged out.

An alien race who doesn’t understand:

A) Love
R) Antagonism
E) Pleasure

Fucking dogs understand these concepts. In fact, anything above a certain level of sentience in the animal kingdom does.

The icing on the cake coming when Picard says what they did is a crime, only for the alien of the week to look blankly and exclaim ‘crime?’ as a further concept he doesn’t understand.

FFS.

The cherry on top of the icing is Picard having a good old laugh about it at the end. A ‘refreshing’ approach to diplomacy.

So kidnapping a person, then applying a pain inducing machine to the side of their body, then using some kind of hologram tech to lie about your gender so you can try to sexually assault the person you’ve kidnapped…

This is ‘refreshing’?

Fuck me. What an episode.

The stuff on the Enterprise itself is just as bad. I just don’t believe that any species could evolve to a level of advanced sentience without an understanding of pleasure, fighting or love. I have two 4 month old kittens who understand these concepts.

Lame, patronising, cliched, dumb bullshit.

^^this

It's definitely camp (not sure if intentional), but your description of the story nails it perfectly. Been a long while since I'd seen it, and a couple youtube clips alone only go so far...

In retrospect, I'm now also thinking of "The Savage Curtain", where another monster of the week doesn't understand human traits (good/evil) and uses the crew to figure it out, complete with assault and threat of mass murder for everyone on the ship as well as its destruction. Yikes... the day that - of all the stories as idea influence - they use "The Savage Curtain" (one of the worst/lamest/tired TOS entries for sure) and, for as bad as "Liaisons" was and yet it is still a hair or two better despite it all (both still feel like a show that's ran its course)...

 

[Tomalak]

I'm also acutely aware of the budget restraints too. It's become a game seeing how they can re-use the same few sets. And if they have three extras well that's a big spend day for TNG. This is the first time since I bought the VHS tapes back in the 1990s that I'm rewatching DS9 and TNG in line with original air dates. And it's really apparent to me that's where they writers were enjoying themselves. That they can begin to tell the stories they were trying to on TNG but were constrained by its format.

And the budget alone, the promenade is FULL of people - many in makeup. The costs must have been so much more, but it makes the place feel ALIVE and not just the same few sets on rotation.

I did this kind of air date marathon of the shows a few years ago and really noticed this too. DS9's first season is pretty rough, but the second is really accomplished and full of ideas, which TNG S7 lacks. It's obvious where Piller's attention was.

Obviously people have pointed out the very genuine highs of the season, but compared with what was going on down the street at DS9, on the whole it does feel tired and running out of steam.

The proliferation of "random unheard of family member of the week" episodes is all the evidence you need of this.

In terms of budget, it's probably not a coincidence that the cast will have renegotiated at the end of the sixth year, so their salaries will have taken up a much larger part of the budget.

At the same time they will have met dwindling interest from syndication, because stations already had 150 episodes to show.

Paramount was obviously more interested in launching the new network with a new show, which is understandable.

At least everyone pulled out all the stops for the series finale, which was a real triumph.

 

[ananta]

Season seven is the pits. Far, far too many of the episodes involved random long lost family members. It happened with all the cast (although in Riker’s case it wasn’t a family member but a long lost commanding officer, in one of the few good episodes).

Even the writers have admitted they were running on fumes. And yes, although DS9’s concurrent second season was far from its best, it was far, far superior to TNG’s final season.

Mind you, I’m one of those strange people who prefers the first two seasons. I’m fully aware of their objective failings, but I find them so much more enjoyable to watch. They have a sense of freshness, boldness and excitement which was sorely lacking in the back half of TNG. The music was great, too!

While I think Michael Piller was a pivotal addition and a great contributor to the franchise, I have mixed feelings about his insistence that character must come before plot. The problem with putting character front and centre on TNG was the fact that these characters just weren’t particularly interesting or dynamic. For example, I used to dread episodes focused on Geordi, Troi or Beverly, and even the Worf episodes could bore me thanks to the caricature treatment of the Klingons.

I wish they’d committed to more high-concept sci-fi and less generic soap opera from seasons four onward (another season obsessed with crew members’ family).

 

[Qonundrum]

Season seven is the pits. Far, far too many of the episodes involved random long lost family members. It happened with all the cast (although in Riker’s case it wasn’t a family member but a long lost commanding officer, in one of the few good episodes).

Early season 4 was apparently popular with dragging out the family members for plotting, so why not do it more and more and more and more? I mean, that kept working for "The Golden Girls", right? They even had multiple actors playing the same ex/kid/etc and that never got tiring... well, it had as well, but when it doubt trot the trope out... season 7 TNG doesn't fare any better.

Too often, definitely, TNG7 is going down soap opera land again. At times it feels like it's trying to go back to the action/adventure format of seasons 1 - 3, but just can't do it.

The one with Picard's 'son' being a rehash of "The Battle", complete with Daimon Bok (again) and his being out for revenge (again). "The Battle" did it pretty well already.

Data's "mother" gets explored too, how exciting... at least it's only dull, there's no contrived Exocomp stuff...

Even the writers have admitted they were running on fumes. And yes, although DS9’s concurrent second season was far from its best, it was far, far superior to TNG’s final season.

Even episodes like "Gambit", which feels middling despite having potential in there (as well as universe building), feels - as well as being a potential DS9 story - feeling tired and cookie cutter too often. Even improving the music would have elevated it. But that said, stale or not, TNG7 definitely felt like it was trying to rise above the soap of 5 and 6...

DS9 season 2 rocks.

Mind you, I’m one of those strange people who prefers the first two seasons. I’m fully aware of their objective failings, but I find them so much more enjoyable to watch.

You're not strange, or alone. Lots of fans do. I recall in 1994, watching with a friend and some of his family who were visiting, one said how he preferred the older episodes, citing their being corny but being more adventure and action driven. Which is even weirder, since "Gambit" definitely is an action adventure trope, but feels knackered.

They have a sense of freshness, boldness and excitement which was sorely lacking in the back half of TNG. The music was great, too!

The first half of TNG's run often felt cinematic. The composers knew what to get out of the scenes and it shows (or is heard, rather ). Ron Jones did get into excesses ("Booby Trap"'s climactic escape scene's original score is jarringly bad and was replaced, despite the rest of the story's music being otherwise solid) so it's understandable why the tone would be clamped down, but the music went way too far in the other direction and as a result a lot of stories suffered to the point that no incidental music would have been better ("Power Play"), The show had the same composers, it was the new tone being set that ruined it.

While I think Michael Piller was a pivotal addition and a great contributor to the franchise, I have mixed feelings about his insistence that character must come before plot. The problem with putting character front and centre on TNG was the fact that these characters just weren’t particularly interesting or dynamic. For example, I used to dread episodes focused on Geordi, Troi or Beverly, and even the Worf episodes could bore me thanks to the caricature treatment of the Klingons.

Character development and interaction are surely essential to any show, otherwise seasons 1 and 2 would have tanked? They are clumsy but still have a greater balance that the latter half often lacked. Soap opera is just drippy excess, for which "V The Final Battle" was doing backstroke after backstroke in as I wanted to find a non-TNG example as that'd be too easy, but I digress...

Ironically, new character Ro had the most underlying character of the lot in TNG's second half, but - what with season 5 and all - the secondary and guest casts would always be the butt of situations and our clique bridge crew were always 100%-pure-dee-right-rubber-stamp. 'Ethics", save for the Worf/Riker scenes, was bad, but before I digress...

The Klingons got watered down too much, but I'm impressed how well DS9 revived them wonderfully and did something to liven the show (as well as invigorating plot ideas by ending the peace treaty successfully and in a way not involving the Organians). TNG's format just couldn't go the level needed, since after "A Matter of Honor" they start to get demystified like pie crust under a rolling pin then left out to dry -- becomes flat and stale, especially after "Redemption".

Some Geordi episodes could be good and focus on real character development without being diluted out of the sci-fi genre into generic soap opera ("Interface" was his best story since "The Enemy" and it holds up well, even with the music. If it weren't for being so flat in tone, combined with Geordi peeking at personal logs that are no longer classified now doesn't help the situation, it'd comes close to being good, but there I go digressing again... )

Riker was just a(n elevated) Kirk archetype and every time he went to appease his hormones, Starfleet almost gets compromised. Riker still had great stories and scenes, but I'm impressed on how "The Game" tries to not mention beyond the opening few minutes that Riker's frequent flyer miles in a motel on the Risa sex planet doesn't bring up the larger issue. Yep, I'll defend the DS9 Risa episode because that one at least tries to address the issue (even if inconsistently and lamely, giving more time to the soap opera breakup subplot shtick). Then again, espionage agents do it all the time (see the James Bond movies as an example of this aspect of "cowboy diplomacy, yeehawww!")

I wish they’d committed to more high-concept sci-fi and less generic soap opera from seasons four onward (another season obsessed with crew members’ family).

^^this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this /melodrama

Early season 4 was novel, what with the Borg aftermath and all, but that was the reason it was watchable at all as people were still high off the Borg resolution - it's not as rewatchable, but by the "Suddenly Salad" one it already felt petered out. "Remember Me" took a new direction on the trope, using - yep - good sci-fi again and is so much more memorable and a sign that TNG was back on track.

While I wish there were more and more memorable ones, there were some examples of sci-fi goodness in season 4-onward, like "Ship in a Bottle" (despite using a story from early season 2 but, shhh, we won't mention Pulaski), "Timescape", "The Next Phase" (roll with the physics stuff, the rest makes up for it and more), "Power Play" (sans music), "The Pegasus", et al - but they are too few solid sci-fi entries in among the soap opera. Even "Genesis", for all its faults, is trying to return to the basics and it's a refreshing change. "Realm of Fear" became too mired in soap opera despite trying to explore a new facet involving the transporters... season 6 did do the same plot reuse overuse trend like what season 4 had, just swap out "the family" for "the transporters". A shame they didn't sprinkle the trope across the season instead of airing the lot of them back-to-back.

 

[Tomalak]

So, less character and more zany sci-fi plots. Step forth, Star Trek: Voyager!

 

[DonIago]

Data's "mother" gets explored too, how exciting... at least it's only dull, there's no contrived Exocomp stuff...

Aw, I liked "Inheritance". Though, TBF, I think Fionnula Flanagan elevates every role she appears in.

 

[tomalak301]

Lame, patronising, cliched, dumb bullshit.

That is a great way to sum up this episode, but I would add another word: Cringeworthy.

 

[Farscape One]

I did this kind of air date marathon of the shows a few years ago and really noticed this too. DS9's first season is pretty rough, but the second is really accomplished and full of ideas, which TNG S7 lacks. It's obvious where Piller's attention was.

Obviously people have pointed out the very genuine highs of the season, but compared with what was going on down the street at DS9, on the whole it does feel tired and running out of steam.

The proliferation of "random unheard of family member of the week" episodes is all the evidence you need of this.

In terms of budget, it's probably not a coincidence that the cast will have renegotiated at the end of the sixth year, so their salaries will have taken up a much larger part of the budget.

At the same time they will have met dwindling interest from syndication, because stations already had 150 episodes to show.

Paramount was obviously more interested in launching the new network with a new show, which is understandable.

At least everyone pulled out all the stops for the series finale, which was a real triumph.

Michael Piller essentially split his head writer duties for TNG season 6/DS9 season 1. When the next season was happening, although Piller retained his 'executive producer' credit for TNG season 7, Jeri Taylor was the showrunner for that season, and Michael Piller solely focused on DS9 season 2. (While at the same time, giving Ira Steven Behr more and more head writer duties because Piller was starting to get busy co-creating VOYAGER. It's also part of the reason why Taylor had Moore and Braga write the TNG finale instead of her really working on it, as she was also co-creating VOYAGER.)

When VOY season 1 began while DS9 season 3 was in production, Piller pretty much handed the reigns over to Behr, and on paper became an 'executive producer' starting with "THE DIE IS CAST", with Piller taking a 'creative consultant' title from that point onward. (Which Piller does again with VOY season 3 onward.) Piller and Taylor both were 'executive producers' for VOY seasons 1 and 2, though it isn't 100% clear which was the head of the writers room. (I lean toward Piller, mainly because he had seniority over Taylor and he preferred to have arcs brought in, which is how we got the Kazon arc with Jonas in the middle of season 2. And his final episodes, the "BASICS" two-parter, was intended as a reminder to the writing staff that once he left to focus on the basics of writing... the characters.)

While some may not agree with this, Michael Piller's contribution to the franchise cannot be overstated. He helped to make TNG the huge phenomenon it became when he came aboard in season 3, but more importantly... he was a great mentor for all the other writers during the era. Moore, Braga, Behr, Menosky... he was very much a shepherd for that group. And all those writers made huge impacts for the franchise.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Puller died much too young. By all accounts, he was a very talented storyteller and cared very much about getting things ‘right’.

He was smart enough to get out of the way when it was time and keep a promise too. He offered Behr a co-producer role
on DS9 with the caveat that he (Piller) would step aside after 2 years and let Behr have the show…

He was brave and could see the potential in people. I can watch For All Mankind and the entire reason I can do that is that Piller gave a spec script from an untested writer called Ronald D. Moore a chance.

 

[Qonundrum]

The last few Season 7 entries I've sat through -- I'd forgotten there was an uptick in music quality. It's still "wallpaper", but feels more in tune with the proceedings and there is a melancholic yet appreciable level of depth that enhances the scenes being put to music. "Phantasms" and "Force of Nature" generally exemplify this effect rather well and it's a return to near-greatness.

I've gone back and forth on this season and, while there are clunkers, I'm still going to put it over 5 and 6 - the show was running out of steam, true, but it often holds together and going back to sci-fi adventure with metaphor is so much nicer than what 5 and 6 too often did. Indeed, "Force of nature" - for all its nitpicks - feels like it's taking nods from "Ethics" but using them rather more effectively. The only quandary is whether or not to revisit episodes I felt were utter clunkers. Then again, I sat through "Force of Nature", which is not exactly renowned, and found it more entertaining as well as interesting this time around. But I'm a huge fan of Geordi and Data, for which this episode makes really good use of their double-act.

Still can't be bothered with "Gambit" ever again, probably not for "Liaisons" either unless I'm in a moody for TNG Wacky-Done-Po-Faced, but I am so looking forward to getting to "The Pegasus"...

 

[Qonundrum]

One thing about Season 7 and feeling worn out is some plot element reuse or slight name bending as means to save time (I'm not complaining if it were the case, whatever else, season 7 pulled of a TON of neat things despite being "worn out" or whatever.)

"The Pegasus" revives the phasing cloak idea of "The Next Phase" yet makes something refreshingly original from it, of which we never get a sequel (which may have been for the best). We also have the Devlin system rather than the Deveron system used in "All Good Things"...

Speaking of, "Parallels" definitely uses a plot trope that "All Good Things" also takes cues from. The one big difference is, Q fiddling with Picard is more entertaining than the treknobabble of the week where, when putting Worf back in the timestream of his origin, everything is undone - except for just his memories. It's a bit of a reset button. It's also where the Worf/Troi shippin' began, and it's the same shippin' that everyone was quick to forget even during the remaining run of TNG, never mind the TNG film or Worf's return to DS9 (he and Dax felt authentic.) Had Worf and Troi been kept to the one universe, it would have been easier to digest than Worf returning (complete via selective reset button) and then chats up Troi, okey dokey then.

Indeed, despite season 7 being made on fumes, letting the incidental music be more incidental and not flat helped a bit as well. Some scenes still feel underwhelming, but nothing - from what I've revisited - comes close to the lows that seasons 5 and 6 did. The revised style really hits the spot for the most part and feels sufficiently lively, without being over the top.

One other thing about "Pegasus" - I did burst out laughing when "ionizing radiation" was used. Not for reasons of Treknobabble, but because I then pondered what the ship's shields do since ionizing radiation is what gives people cancer. See your smartphone there? It doesn't ionize radiation. Unlike x-rays, but even then one x-ray only shoots 10 days' worth of otherwise naturally-occurring background radiation up your part of doctor's choice (e.g. mouth, arm, leg, lungs, etc... so if you need 4 r-rays in a session, that's a wee bit over a month. Now having read that, you might want a wee bit of something else, as Scotty might say, but I digress all over the floor, just like my pet named "Spot"...)

Season 7 could still be a mixed bag, but - at least for the non-clunkers - there is a special feel to it despite it all. The show did end at just the right time.

 

[Phoenix219]

How far can I make it into season 4 before I hit the point of no return? When does the music change? Is there a line in the sand I can divide the show with?

Random thought, I'm surprised I'm in season 4 and data still does not have his cat yet. I have also still not noticed any of those Picard Crystal things that trivia claims are in the background lol. My last episode was brothers, and the first half is tense, full of action and has great music, so season 4 begins ok anyways.

Not having seen some of these episodes since first run has been interesting that's for sure.

 

[Tomalak]

Season 4 is great. The change in the music is a little exaggerated. The main difference is Ron Jones leaves after 'The Drumhead' towards the end of the season. But Jay Chattaway and Dennis McCarthy do step it up with episodes like 'The Inner Light' and 'Lessons'.

Spot first appears in 'Data's Day', which is about half way through season 4.

It's also where the Worf/Troi shippin' began, and it's the same shippin' that everyone was quick to forget even during the remaining run of TNG, never mind the TNG film or Worf's return to DS9 (he and Dax felt authentic.) Had Worf and Troi been kept to the one universe, it would have been easier to digest than Worf returning (complete via selective reset button) and then chats up Troi, okey dokey then.

To be fair, it doesn't come out of nowhere. They increasingly bond over Worf's dreadful parenting of Alexander, in episodes like 'Ethics', where he asks her to be the boy's guardian if Worf doesn't survive the surgery.

There's also the flirting in 'A Fistful of Datas' the previous season, and a few other B-stories along the way.

The idea is that 'Parallels' makes the emotionally stunted Worf realise that Troi might actually be interested in him, so he makes his move.

I don't hate the Worf/Troi thing. It was very short-lived and in-character I feel that Troi was partly exploring it in response to Riker's continued disinterest, especially after 'Second Chances'. Worf being Worf probably called it off after 'Generations' when he was in his sulk after the Enterprise crashed. He moves to DS9 and the rest is history.

 

[DonIago]

I liked Worf-Troi. Riker-Troi was alright, but after a couple of seasons of 'Will they or won't they?' I was ready for them both to move on. I know it's covered in a novel, but I still wish we knew canonically what happened to end the relationship between those two. There was something appealing about the emotionally restrained Worf getting into a relationship with an empathic social worker.

 

[JesterFace]

I think the Worf and Deanna crush was great.
Fearless warrior and mindreading therapist, opposites attract they say.

 

[Qonundrum]

I just watched "Homeward" - granted, seeing the turbolift deck indicator show they're going down decks (something like 36 but I lost count) after Worf said "Bridge!" so they had the light gizmo operating the wrong way, or how Picard orders security to deck 10 even though the fried console was due to the technobabble phenomenon of the week (security? Not engineers??)... or the obvious stuff involving three big issues:

1. Language translation (universal translator figuring out their actual language)
2. #2
3. Tinkle

I've big soft spot for this episode.

Didn't expect the dude to kill himself after Picard offered asylum, which is amazing as Picard was oh-so-happy to mourn po-face the incidental slaughter of millions... oh, go fig, the lady of the episode (Penny Johnson, woohoo!) also states how everyone was ready to die because of the goofy storms -- sheesh, is this a planet of depressed lemmings or something? Okay, that's five issues now, but if I counted then I could be a backup singers for these all-time greats:

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(Oh yeah!)

The story really feels like it's wanting to openly question the prime directive - something we'd gotten a few times before in the series, so the surprise was when what started to feel like a retread dared to show beings - people - in real time, as opposed to ancillary like Sarjenka's people all hiding in a corner, which if nothing else saved on make-up and costuming costs. That really upped the ante.

Worf's coy allusions to Geordi were an impressive way to get around the treknobabble of the holodeck and, yeah, it was bold of TNG to actually use the holodeck for such a large undertaking.

Picard was hot to trot in taking success for this project with "Our plan for them worked out well", despite the Vorin's "ritual suicide". Indeed, Picard offering such asylum was oddly really cool when all is said and done. What would you do if you were in Vorin's place?

Plus, Worf had surgery to help conceal himself and to pass for this species. TNG has done it before, but it's a neat little reminder and not overplayed.

I probably shouldn't like this much as I should as some elements were told before in the show, and yet it's a lot more watchable and easygoing than I'd expected. The boldness of Nikolai's plan probably helps. As does how this old chestnut of a plot trope wasn't done to death as badly as Data's status as a sentient being or how big his family was getting, as mommy was an android too (it's the old "put a human soul into a robot body" trick and fans had fallen for that too often in Trek's run up to that point, too)... It also answers the most burning question TNG has ever had: Who cleans up the mess. (Automated transporter functionality. It readily explains both the range of utility of the holodeck and, of course, Riker's frequent use because we all remember the episode "The Perfect Mate" and the single-entendre nature of that one scene where, "frustrated", he tells Picard he's going into holodeck four for a while... oh my...)

Lastly, it's a total tangent:

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A timeless energetic great...

 

[tomalak301]

Michael Piller solely focused on DS9 season 2. (While at the same time, giving Ira Steven Behr more and more head writer duties because Piller was starting to get busy co-creating VOYAGER. It's also part of the reason why Taylor had Moore and Braga write the TNG finale instead of her really working on it, as she was also co-creating VOYAGER.)

That must be the reason I really enjoyed DS9 Season 2, especially the back half. It was really starting to be the DS9 that we all know and love during that season, even though the Circle Trilogy was really audacious for it's time.

 

[tomalak301]

I think the Worf and Deanna crush was great.
Fearless warrior and mindreading therapist, opposites attract they say.

At least there was some kind of development leading up to it going back to Season 5 (Worf asking Troi to be Alexander's godmother). The Seven/Chakotay stuff just happened out of nowhere.

 

[JesterFace]

At least there was some kind of development leading up to it going back to Season 5 (Worf asking Troi to be Alexander's godmother). The Seven/Chakotay stuff just happened out of nowhere.

Because they were married in 'Parallels' in another reality it gave that relationship even more juice.

 

[Qonundrum]

"Genesis" is a great example of great acting, make-up, and direction, on a script that needed a slight rewrite to make the "devolution" aspect more believable. The idea of crewmembers mutating is still really cool, and everyone's giving it their all and some scenes really sell their situations extremely well, but the Treknobabble infused with some not-real stuff about DNA knocked it down a notch. Roll with it and there's still much suspense/horror/mystery to be had.