Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread

[Gaith]

Oh hey, look who agrees with me (Deadline):

Donald Glover Wants Star Wars To Be “Fun” Through Lando Film​

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“I just want it to be fun,” the actor-rapper told the Wall Street Journal in a recent video interview. “As a Star Wars fan myself, I think it’s important that there’s just — there just needs to be more fun being had.”​

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The Atlanta star-producer continued, referencing the strife present in the galaxy, “It’s very hard to have fun right now. It’s tough because there are very serious things happening. Those are the only things that connect us, weirdly, so I get why things are serious but part of the human experience, I believe, is we have a responsibility to have an enjoyment, and I just feel like we’re lacking in that department.”​

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[...] “Star Wars, I love it, but sometimes it be super serious, sometimes it be like way too serious and everything that has to do with the Skywalkers is so serious,” Glover continued, chuckling.​

Obviously, Glover is no stranger to putting social commentary into his art. So when even he thinks Star Wars has developed a fun deficiency, maybe Disney/Lucasfilm should take notice.

 

[fireproof78]

Define "fun".

 

[Set Harth]

A quality that a show doesn't have when you refuse to watch it.

 

[fireproof78]

[...] “Star Wars, I love it, but sometimes it be super serious, sometimes it be like way too serious and everything that has to do with the Skywalkers is so serious,” Glover continued, chuckling.

I blame Empire Strikes Back, personally.

A quality that a show doesn't have when you refuse to watch it.

I guess. People seemed to have fun with Clone Wars, and Mandalorian, and Grogu and the like, but apparently that's not "fun" enough.

Yes, I'm using quotation marks because fun is a nebulous term. Star Wars roles out "The Skeleton Crew" and it immediately gets bashed as being "too kid like," and "juvenile."

 

[Gaith]

I blame Empire Strikes Back, personally.

Repeating this point doesn't make it any less asinine.

 

[fireproof78]

Repeating this point doesn't make it any less asinine.

You saying Empire didn't have a different tone?

 

[Gaith]

You saying Empire didn't have a different tone?

I'm saying you've yet to demonstrate you're worth debating with.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm saying you've yet to demonstrate you're worth debating with.

Well then, thanks for letting me know. I was not aware there was worth component to this. I thought it was supposed to be fun.

My overall point is that Empire strikes back completely shifted the tone of Star Wars. It went darker, it went grittier, it went on a downer ending. It has a great follow through with Return of the Jedi, but that doesn't change the darkness of that film. Star Wars, despite its dark moments, still ends on a light hearted tone, and rather celebratory. It was that fun adventure as you describe.

Empire shifted that to more a darker and meditative piece. Was Vader right? How did this change Luke? Did Obi-Wan lie? It added in that gray area that wasn't really there in the original, save for maybe Han.

I also think that ROTS added to that, and then Clone Wars and on and on. We saw that gradual slip away from the fun, and more in to the dark. Understandable since the subject matter is a rather dark one on the topic of war and a good man going bad. But it wasn't always fun. ROTS is a deeply unfun film. Rogue One was similarly unfun. They were serious war pieces, but not fun.

So, the idea that this is a new problem with Star Wars is one I raise a skeptical eyebrow at because I see existing there since the OT. Maybe not as on the nose, but still present. When I see complaints around Star Wars not being "fun" I go, "Ok, but I've had that feeling for a while now depending on the project."

More interesting to me is the tendency to laud the unfun projects as the most well done: ESB, Rogue One and Andor.

 

[Set Harth]

ROTS is deeply unfun film.

 

[JD]

Well then, thanks for letting me know. I was not aware there was worth component to this. I thought it was supposed to be fun.

My overall point is that Empire strikes back completely shifted the tone of Star Wars. It went darker, it went grittier, it went on a downer ending. It has a great follow through with Return of the Jedi, but that doesn't change the darkness of that film. Star Wars, despite its dark moments, still ends on a light hearted tone, and rather celebratory. It was that fun adventure as you describe.

Empire shifted that to more a darker and meditative piece. Was Vader right? How did this change Luke? Did Obi-Wan lie? It added in that gray area that wasn't really there in the original, save for maybe Han.

I also think that ROTS added to that, and then Clone Wars and on and on. We saw that gradual slip away from the fun, and more in to the dark. Understandable since the subject matter is a rather dark one on the topic of war and a good man going bad. But it wasn't always fun. ROTS is a deeply unfun film. Rogue One was similarly unfun. They were serious war pieces, but not fun.

So, the idea that this is a new problem with Star Wars is one I raise a skeptical eyebrow at because I see existing there since the OT. Maybe not as on the nose, but still present. When I see complaints around Star Wars not being "fun" I go, "Ok, but I've had that feeling for a while now depending on the project."

More interesting to me is the tendency to laud the unfun projects as the most well done: ESB, Rogue One and Andor.

I thought the sequel trilogy had a fair amount of fun in them, or at least Abrams' movies did, The Last Jedi was a little closer to Empire Strikes Back in tone.

 

[Ithekro]

I would think a Lando film done in the style of the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles could make for fun adventures. Older Lando telling tall tales and all that

 

[saddestmoon]

Controversial opinion: I actually liked ‘The Power of Two’ pop song, that was the end credit music of Episode 7 - The Acolyte.

For me, I love the melody - more so than the lyrics - buuuut overall have been enjoying this track.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought the sequel trilogy had a fair amount of fun in them, or at least Abrams' movies did, The Last Jedi was a little closer to Empire Strikes Back in tone.

I agree and I think The Rise of Skywalker highlighted that a little more with the camaraderie building between Rey, Finn and Poe, and some more light hearted moments with Lando.

Again, I don't think all Star Wars projects are lacking fun, but I think there are various levels of it. The original film was actually quite an interesting study in the balance between the two aspects of serious and fun. You had a serious moment of the destruction of Alderaan, and acknowledgement, then you move in to a more fun sequence of training. "You see? You can do it."

 

[Gaith]

My overall point is that Empire strikes back completely shifted the tone of Star Wars. It went darker, it went grittier, it went on a downer ending. It has a great follow through with Return of the Jedi, but that doesn't change the darkness of that film. Star Wars, despite its dark moments, still ends on a light hearted tone, and rather celebratory. It was that fun adventure as you describe.

Sorry to be harsh. I was frustrated because you seemed intent on equating fun with an upbeat tone, whereas, per my discussion of Andor a page ago, I think quality and suspense are far more important than mere positivity. I consider Andor super fun (albeit in an adult way) because it's both rivetingly suspenseful and expertly made.

Similarly, I consider ESB more fun than RotJ, Ewoks notwithstanding, because it has far more well-written and well-acted dramatic scenes of people talking, and the story is much more intense. Everything that happens in ESB, including Luke's training, is vitally important. Taking 50 minutes of screen time to rescue one relatively important carbonite-frozen smuggler, on the other hand, is just dilly-dallying, particularly when there's a new Death Star to face - even when said smuggler is Harrison Ford's Han Solo.

Do I think all Star Wars should be as grim and harrowing as Andor? Of course not. But should Stars Wars be much better-written and more all-around just plain exciting than Boba Fett and Kenobi and all I've heard about Ahsoka, The Acolyte, and Mando S3? Hell, yeah, it should.

(Hint: for the very first depiction of the pre-Palpatine Old Jedi Order in live action, apart from the first (Jar-Jar-corrupted) half-hour of The Phantom Menace, maybe don't show the Jedi doing a mineral/agricultural survey. Maybe come up with a desperate rescue mission of some kind. They're Jedi Knights, for chrissakes, not Jedi Monks or Scholars or Botanists.)

 

[Set Harth]

Controversial opinion: I actually liked ‘The Power of Two’ pop song, that was the end credit music of Episode 7 - The Acolyte.

For me, I love the melody - more so than the lyrics - buuuut overall have been enjoying this track.

The first time I saw the episode I was not pleased. I prefer the score end credit music.

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry to be harsh. I was frustrated because you seemed intent on equating fun with an upbeat tone, whereas, per my discussion of Andor a page ago, I think quality and suspense are far more important than mere positivity. I consider Andor super fun (albeit in an adult way) because it's both rivetingly suspenseful and expertly made.

Similarly, I consider ESB more fun than RotJ, Ewoks notwithstanding, because it has far more well-written and well-acted dramatic scenes of people talking, and the story is much more intense. Everything that happens in ESB, including Luke's training, is vitally important. Taking 50 minutes of screen time to rescue one relatively important carbonite-frozen smuggler, on the other hand, is just dilly-dallying, particularly when there's a new Death Star to face - even when said smuggler is Harrison Ford's Han Solo.

Do I think all Star Wars should be as grim and harrowing as Andor? Of course not. But should Stars Wars be much better-written and more all-around just plain exciting than Boba Fett and Kenobi and all I've heard about Ahsoka, The Acolyte, and Mando S3? Hell, yeah, it should.

(Hint: for the very first depiction of the pre-Palpatine Old Jedi Order in live action, apart from the first (Jar-Jar-corrupted) half-hour of The Phantom Menace, maybe don't show the Jedi doing a mineral/agricultural survey. Maybe come up with a desperate rescue mission of some kind. They're Jedi Knights, for chrissakes, not Jedi Monks or Scholars or Botanists.)

As I said, "define fun." To me, that doesn't sound like fun. That sounds riveting, engaging, entertaining, and dramatic. I think ESB has one of the best scenes in Star Wars with the asteroid chase but that's because of tension.

I don't think all Star Wars should be exciting, but that's me. I don't subscribce to the need for constant drama or entertainment. The original Star Wars was not always fun, and often slower paced. It still works very well. Acolyte, Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka all worked for me (save for the last two episodes of Boba Fett) because the characters draw me in to their drama. That's what I want.

I don't just want tension. I want people I give a shit about so that the tension actually matters.

And, in defense of ROTJ, Vader notes that the fleet is "amassing" as in the Rebels are gathering together so they were not prepped to assault the Death Star II during the rescue mission.

But, I'm a weird guy. I don't always want excitement. Sorry, that's me. Mileage will vary.

tl:dr-fireproof's definition of fun does not include suspense or well made.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If they were to cancel everything else and just do 5 seasons of Ahsoka, I would be happy with that.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Repeating this point doesn't make it any less asinine.

Indeed.

My overall point is that Empire strikes back completely shifted the tone of Star Wars. It went darker, it went grittier, it went on a downer ending. It has a great follow through with Return of the Jedi, but that doesn't change the darkness of that film. Star Wars, despite its dark moments, still ends on a light hearted tone, and rather celebratory. It was that fun adventure as you describe.

Middle acts often take that route.

Oh, and about dark in Star Wars, I imagine anyone would say just because the Rebels had a victory at the end, it did not ease very dark/sad moments such as Luke discovering the charred remains of his aunt and uncle, the destruction of Alderaan (not to mention Leia being forced to watch it), and Obi-Wan's sacrifice, which, from Luke's perspective was crushing, as he already lost his aunt and uncle, now he had to watch his mentor cut down by Vader. SW '77 was not some happy romp across the board.

 

[fireproof78]

SW '77 was not some happy romp across the board.

No. It was a very balanced approach. No one said it was straight up happiness. Neither was Clone Wars, and that show was aimed even more at kids, and included some horrific death scenes.

 

[Gaith]

And, in defense of ROTJ, Vader notes that the fleet is "amassing" as in the Rebels are gathering together so they were not prepped to assault the Death Star II during the rescue mission.

So getting killed in an unimportant personal mission that can be done later (the guy's frozen; he's not going anywhere) is a better use of their time than helping to organize and practice for the Death Star II assault?