This girl is talking a lot of sensible stuff. I agree with her. Why are females a problem in modern games?
Oh women in video games, why is this still a problem for developers?
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
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People trying too hard.
Yes.
I had to watch a few of her videos she seems to try too hard but I like that she does old games
I love old games. A friend of mine and I use emulators a lot for NES and such. I enjoy a lot of different games throughout, and personally find some as just plain fun.
In my opinion, games try too hard to please everyone and then it becomes challenging to make them fun.
Are they better in older games? I've always had the impression that they were not always portrayed in a positive light in earlier games ie the early Tomb Raiders, whereas now you have games like the Horizon series Evie Frye in AC Syndicate, Kassandra in AC Odyssey, giving them roles that are more than just eye-candy. I think it's a rose-cloured glasses scenario.
That's definitely the kind of video I turn my YouTube history off before watching, as I've spent long enough training the algorithm that I don't want any shouty men telling me how angry they are that women exist. But she does seem like she's being honest, not saying all the clickbait words just to get clicks.
I have to be honest, I'm always a few years behind on games because I buy them when they're cheap, so I haven't got first hand experience of what it's like over in 2024. But she does seem to be picking some strange targets. Like she uses Concord as an example how bad character design is these days... a game that died instantly due (in part) to bad character design. You can't even buy it anymore, no one's defending it, no one even played it. If she's avoiding modern games because she's worried they all look like that, then I've got good news for her!
Also she picks the most notoriously unlikeable protagonist in recent memory to make the case that modern games have unlikeable protagonists. She also uses her to make the case that people in a post apocalyptic world shouldn't be incredibly muscular, which is fair enough if you're after that level of realism. She's probably not a fan of Mad Max though.
She talks about developers being pressured to make their characters less feminine and beautiful, which I've seen mentioned a lot, but never backed up with proof. There's definitely pushback against the kinds of heavily exaggerated, barely dressed character designs we got in the late 90s, early 2000s, but I don't think anyone's being told to make characters more androgynous. Every time I see comparisons of a beautiful video game character and an ugly modern western character, the "beautiful" one is cartoony and the "ugly" one is going for cutting edge realism, so either the game is falling short of representing beautiful faces realistically, or these critics would rather have fantasy.
Then again, have you seen the faces in the games she likes?
This was my very best attempt at making an Oblivion character back in 2006, and if this counts as pretty while modern faces are ugly, maybe they mostly don't like feeling that someone with an agenda is meddling with the designs. Even if that agenda is to push for more representation and less homogeneity, which is generally considered to be a good thing.
I have to be honest, I'm always a few years behind on games because I buy them when they're cheap, so I haven't got first hand experience of what it's like over in 2024. But she does seem to be picking some strange targets. Like she uses Concord as an example how bad character design is these days... a game that died instantly due (in part) to bad character design. You can't even buy it anymore, no one's defending it, no one even played it. If she's avoiding modern games because she's worried they all look like that, then I've got good news for her!
Also she picks the most notoriously unlikeable protagonist in recent memory to make the case that modern games have unlikeable protagonists. She also uses her to make the case that people in a post apocalyptic world shouldn't be incredibly muscular, which is fair enough if you're after that level of realism. She's probably not a fan of Mad Max though.
She talks about developers being pressured to make their characters less feminine and beautiful, which I've seen mentioned a lot, but never backed up with proof. There's definitely pushback against the kinds of heavily exaggerated, barely dressed character designs we got in the late 90s, early 2000s, but I don't think anyone's being told to make characters more androgynous. Every time I see comparisons of a beautiful video game character and an ugly modern western character, the "beautiful" one is cartoony and the "ugly" one is going for cutting edge realism, so either the game is falling short of representing beautiful faces realistically, or these critics would rather have fantasy.
Then again, have you seen the faces in the games she likes?
This was my very best attempt at making an Oblivion character back in 2006, and if this counts as pretty while modern faces are ugly, maybe they mostly don't like feeling that someone with an agenda is meddling with the designs. Even if that agenda is to push for more representation and less homogeneity, which is generally considered to be a good thing.
Haven’t watched the vid yet but until Morrowind I never felt like I had agency as a female gamer and that was mainly due to being able to create my own character and getting to wear real armor. Morrowind also had female npcs that weren’t there to be eye candy or rescued. Even today, it irritates the shit out of me if the only option is slut wear for females. I have no problem with that being an option but my hero isn’t going to run around with armor made for a sex dungeon
In fact before Morrowind the only good female character that wasn’t designed as just a plaything for men was Samus and for many years no one realized she was female.
'Plaything for men' definitely seemed like the default a lot of the time, but I think you're selling the early years of video games a little short. There was a bit of variety in the kinds of female characters you could play as or meet (and how much armour you could stick on them):
Joanna Dark.'Plaything for men' definitely seemed like the default a lot of the time, but I think you're selling the early years of video games a little short. There was a bit of variety in the kinds of female characters you could play as or meet (and how much armour you could stick on them):
@jenji120 Are you familiar with Viva La Dirt League? They spoof all sorts of video games, including revealing and therefore (in reality) useless armor for female characters.
The No One Lives Forever games were great. I really wish they could revive and remaster those, but nobody can seem to figure out who own the rights. I think there was one studio, NightDive who wanted to, and they had done the research but ended up being denied.
JOANNA DARK! I knew there was someone I was forgetting but I couldn't bring the name into my head.
I was also thinking of Konoko and D'arci Stern, but Konoko is possibly a bit too close to the 'plaything for men' side of the scale.
Or Revan in KOTOR
'Plaything for men' definitely seemed like the default a lot of the time, but I think you're selling the early years of video games a little short. There was a bit of variety in the kinds of female characters you could play as or meet (and how much armour you could stick on them):
Cate Archer -NOLF 1 and 2 that brings back memories
I love the video where Britt scams that guy out of all his loot
'Plaything for men' definitely seemed like the default a lot of the time, but I think you're selling the early years of video games a little short. There was a bit of variety in the kinds of female characters you could play as or meet (and how much armour you could stick on them):
Some great games there. I think what made Morrowind stand out was the huge range of options for clothing and armour, all of which was reflected in-game in a 3D world instead of just a character inventory screen. So a female character could run around in a dress, leathers or plate armour, or whatever weird combination you desired.
Here's some funnies
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