From ENT's "Borderland":
PHLOX: (examining the DNA of the augments) "This is extremely sophisticated work for twentieth-century Earth."
What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?
- Thread starter Ray Hardgrit
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The kid "T&T&T" grows up to be the guy in TWOK. He's still a a "superman" from the past who was placed in suspended animation and revived by Kirk and company. "T&T&T" tells us that the 1996 version happened.
Same way we explain all the other TATI stuff. "Space Seed" claims Khan has been asleep for 200 years,
KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate. Landing party to Enterprise. Come in.
Does TOS now take place in 2196 because of that line? How do we square that with all of the other data points that contradict that? Did all those references "erase' all of "Space Seed" and TWOK? Or just the couple of contradictions?
Fiction is mutable.
Even in PIC Season 2 the genetic engineering research file marked "PROJECT KHAN" came from 1996. So even if the Eugenics Wars themselves are no longer in the 1990s the research that created the Augments is still from the 20th century.
I mean, I just plain don't care for PIC Season 2 and at least it has that.
I mean, I just plain don't care for PIC Season 2 and at least it has that.
T&T&T tells us that the 1996 version NEVER happened, and that this one, did, instead.
That fits with SNW though - the file in 1996, creaetd the kid after 1996, that we see in the 2020s.
The original Khan's file would have been from some point well before '96, because the child was an emperor or whatever before 1996, and was exiled in 1996.
It had to have happened for that one to have happen instead. Someone went back in time and changed things.
Given Khan's apparent age in "Space Seed" the first experiments would have to be from the 1930s or earlier.
Maybe it was always after 1996 the way warp drive suddenly became a 2063 invention in the TNG films or the Federation was a 2161 creation in the '90s syndicated series? "The Cage" fumbled around with very strong dialogue implying that warp drive was a new thing in the 18 years since the S.S. Columbia crashed and not one series or film pinned down the date for the first human warp flight until the second Next Gen film, some thirty years after TOS premiered.
Yet both have now been totally and utterly resolved.
Yet both have now been totally and utterly resolved.
I felt the same initially. However, I've watched several TNG reaction vids / channels since Picard and thankfully it's become a distant memory.
Given Khan's apparent age in "Space Seed" the first experiments would have to be from the 1930s or earlier.
1996 - 46 (age of Ricardo) = 1950, maybe later, if the augments age fast, but it woudln't have said 1996. maybe 1966 (nice easter egg for space seed lol.)
Lots of time travel has changed things, but they still claim it to be the same original timeline. Its clearly not.
The Cage has a lot in common with the tropes of the NX - first ship fast enough to go check on colonies and get to the outer rim after a recent breakthru in warp technology. ENT could have been a true reboot in the vein of BSG if they had wanted, right down to the trio of the captain, the vulcan (gdnerswap) and the good ole southern boy.
1959 would tie in with Khan's stated age in STID ("300-year-old frozen man") but even in that case the Cumberbatch Khan would be the same Khan as Montalban since the Botany Bay departed Earth two centuries before the Narada changed history to create the Kelvin Timeline. So his origin story should still be the same as the TOS and TWOK Khan's.
Cumberkhan and Montalkhan.
Interesting you cite Doctor Who as an example of an ongoing universe with consistent continuity over decades, given one of its more infamous trademarks is that it's always been inconsistent. I mean hell, this is the show which couldn't even remember if it took place in the 1970s or 80s and one of its most renowned writers even said in an interview "continuity is only whatever I can remember."
I think it's fairly consistent, especially considering that past episodes weren't even available to watch for a long while. I started Doctor Who in 2010 with the Matt Smith Doctor, then went back and watched the classic era a few years later, and it was great watching all the pieces starting to slot into place. The introduction of Gallifrey, the appearance of the Master, and so on.
I was surprised 1985's Attack of the Cybermen made an real effort to fit with Tenth Planet, a 60s episode that took place in 1986. And Remembrance of the Daleks goes back to Coal Hill school in the 60s, the same time and place the first episode was set. The series loved to do its thing where it'd show video clips of all the previous Doctors, which still happens to this day, and his shapeshifting blue box never shifted too far from its original iconic form. In fact, its slight deviation from its original dimensions was actually a plot point in Logopolis.
And ask the modern series if Genesis of the Daleks, or Pyramids of Mars, or any of the other episodes we got actual clips from during the 50th anniversary episodes still happened as we saw them.
Why does new shows change this?
Must it be so literal? Is there no room for dramatic interpretation? Any change means it didn't happen?
According to one episode of DS9 the Eugenics Wars happened around the year 2173. And in early ENT Archer grew up around San Francisco - until later episodes had him growing up in New York State.
I'm sorry, sir, but Trek has always been consistent! Are you suggesting otherwise?
*Puts on monacle*
Data being in the Starfleet Academy Class of '78.
I rest my case.
I rest my case.
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