What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[Phoenix219]

People in their twenties or thirties mostly. The version that costume is based on is from around 2004.

Put him in blue trunks and split top boots and then we’ll talk.

you sure? i remember the yellow costume from the 90s.

Either way, I love nostalgia, callbacks, easter eggs and memberberries.

I was really hoping for Dr. Pulaski to be one of the secret scientists in DSC S05, for instance.

 

[fireproof78]

I do think cal888 was onto something several pages ago about "canon people" versus "story people" and their conflicting priorities. There's probably an interesting debate to be had about whether the overall world-building is the story or just the backdrop for the stories.

And not just with regards to Star Trek.

I confess: back when I was a full-time editor at Tor Books, my heart would sink a little whenever a new submission would begin with several pages of maps, glossaries, geneologies, and a capsule history of the realm/universe going back umpteen generations. This didn't necessarily guarantee that the author was more into the world-building than the actual story, characters, prose style, etc, but it was a red flag.

Even as I concede that this would not be a problem for a sizable segment of the SFF audience.

I guess that puts me over in the "story people" camp.

I agree that there are different priorities to different approaches. And I was absolutely a lore guy in my younger years, reading all the tech manuals, timelines, and trivia. I had a huge pause when I attended a convention and two things happened: one, I attended a trivia contest with one Guest of Honor who was a Trek writer. I knew more of the answers than he did on the Trek trivia.

Second one was I was not allowed to hang with some Trek fan club that was from the local chapter because I didn't know enough about the book trivia.

Made me realize what I actually enjoyed with Trek and Iet go of that judgemental place of needing things to line up perfectly and be respected.


Far different places for me.

 

[Nerys Myk]

you sure? i remember the yellow costume from the 90s.

There have been several yellow costumes since 1974.

The 90s were mostly the second version with a tweak or two.

 

[Phoenix219]

90s looks so close to 75 i wuodln't have known the difference. never seen the 2004 one before. Assumed the movie one was the classic 70s/90s one. Don't pay attention, haven't seen the movie. lol.

 

[evilchumlee]

I do think cal888 was onto something several pages ago about "canon people" versus "story people" and their conflicting priorities.

I've never understand why there are conflicting priorities. It is 100% possible... easy even... to satisfy both.

It should be almost effortless to tell a good story... while respecting that which came before.

Is that really some kind of alien concept that people can't understand?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Another reason why physical media is important... especially if AI takes off to the point TOS can be "corrected" for the modern audience.

Could you imagine? Using AI to redub "Starfleet" and "Federation" over the silly names they used in early episodes before they'd figured it all out yet

Turning Spock's uniform blue in the second pilot and making Uhura's red for her early appearances...

 

[HotRod]

Could you imagine? Using AI to redub "Starfleet" and "Federation" over the silly names they used in early episodes before they'd figured it all out yet

Turning Spock's uniform blue in the second pilot and making Uhura's red for her early appearances...

Parts of the fandom would probably be 100% in favour of this. The fans that demand continuity to be absolutely perfectly adhered too.

I mean... they think of Trek as a historical period piece. Anything that can be viewed as an error or anachronism must be corrected or banished into an alternate timeline.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Parts of the fandom would probably be 100% in favour of this. The fans that demand continuity to be absolutely perfectly adhered too.

I mean... they think of Trek as a historical period piece. Anything that can be viewed as an error or anachronism must be corrected or banished into an alternate timeline.

Personally I support getting the continuity right the first time, but I'm against messing with the episodes that have already been produced to "fix" them later. Not that there'd be much to fix in TOS. Kirk says 'Earth vessel' a couple of times, whatever.

HD remasters are cool though, we should get more of them.

 

[evilchumlee]

Parts of the fandom would probably be 100% in favour of this. The fans that demand continuity to be absolutely perfectly adhered too.

I mean... they think of Trek as a historical period piece. Anything that can be viewed as an error or anachronism must be corrected or banished into an alternate timeline.

I'm one of those canon people, but I would not like this... it's the opposite of what I want. That was already established.

Rather, if there some kind of show that... for some reason that seems like an absolutely terrible idea... where to go back and set said show during the time where Uhura's uniform wasn't red but decided that since... usually Uhura's uniform is red they made it red in that new show... that's slightly more annoying.

It's kind of ironic though because it seems like your actually talking about what nuTrek does. We can't possibly have things look like TOS, or have the characters act like their TOS versions, because those are all anachronisms and must be banished in favor of "visual updates".

 

[Richard S. Ta]

There have been several yellow costumes since 1974.

The 90s were mostly the second version with a tweak or two.

Huh. I thought he started in brown and yellow, but that didn’t come till 1980?

Cool rundown. Thanks for sharing.

x

 

[fireproof78]

It's kind of ironic though because it seems like your actually talking about what nuTrek does. We can't possibly have things look like TOS, or have the characters act like their TOS versions, because those are all anachronisms and must be banished in favor of "visual updates".

Because it's art. It's why we have a refit Enterprise and new uniforms twice in films.

Because it's art and meant to be believable to a wide audience.

And it's not all banished and it's not ruined. Tired of the hyperbole.

 

[Greg Cox]

Because it's art. It's why we have a refit Enterprise and new uniforms twice in films.

Because it's art and meant to be believable to a wide audience.

And it's not all banished and it's not ruined. Tired of the hyperbole.

As I like to joke, there's a reason Lois Lane doesn't wear pillbox hats anymore, or pound out her stories on an old Smith-Corona. And why Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys use computers and cell phones these days. And why even Sherlock Holmes ended up fighting Nazis back in the 1940s movies -- despite the fact that the first two films in that series took place in Victorian times.

Any long-running property is going to quietly adapt to changing times and audiences, and we used to just to go along with it -- before fandom got obsessed with "canon."

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Any long-running property is going to adapt to changing times and audiences, and we used to just to go along with it -- before fandom got obsessed with "canon."

I think that's partly Star Trek's fault. And Doctor Who, Star Wars etc. These franchises introduced the concept of an ongoing cinematic/television universe with consistent continuity over decades. Comic books had being doing ongoing continuity already, but they had reboots every few years, the visuals depended on what artist was drawing that issue, and the jumping on point is always 'now', or close to it. Sure there are certain graphic novels and arcs that people recommend checking out, but the past is always a little hazy and never quite lines up with the present.

With Star Trek though, TOS or TNG are still good jumping on points for new viewers and if they don't watch them right away they're high on the list of shows they'll get around to eventually. Doctor Who fans who start with 2023's Church on Ruby Road then go back to watch 2005's Rose once they're out of Ncuti Gatwa episodes. Some brave ones even check out An Unearthly Child. And has any Star Wars fan not eventually watched the original trilogy?

Any long-running property has to adapt to changing times and audiences, and today's audiences who grew up with serialised television and Marvel Cinematic Universes expect things to progress and fit together. People who were born in a world of streaming and physical media are used to having access to everything, and they're connected with people telling them that before checking out Into Darkness they have to watch Wrath of Khan, but make sure to watch Space Seed first, and so on. TOS isn't an ancient forgotten relic of the 60s, it's what they could be watching tomorrow.

I just watched a reaction video from a guy seeing DS9's Trials and Tribble-ations for the first time, and it blew his mind. The crew of DS9 walking around the sets of the original series he was watching a year or so ago! Sisko meeting Kirk! I saw a Discovery fan watching Journey to Babel for the first time, and they got very interested when they realised they were going to see Sarek talking to Spock. When this stuff works it really works.

 

[fireproof78]

As I like to joke, there's a reason Lois Lane doesn't wear pillbox hats anymore, or pound out her stories on an old Smith-Corona. And why Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys use computers and cell phones these days. And why even Sherlock Holmes ended up fighting Nazis back in the 1940s movies -- despite the fact that the first two films in that series took place in Victorian times.

Any long-running property is going to quietly adapt to changing times and audiences, and we used to just to go along with it -- before fandom got obsessed with "canon."

Yeah. It's taken too literally and limits the imagination.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

@Ray Hardgrit: Lovely post.

I think to be honest with myself, I need to chill the fuck out when it comes to Star Trek for a bit. I’ve been down on recent stuff, but I have enjoyed the majority of the output of the last few years to some extent.

Watching Prodigy recently has really taught me the value of just putting an episode on and riding along with it. I’ve been doing the same with random TNG episodes.

I’m feeling a pang to watch DSC S05, looking forward to new LDS. I’ve got 32 episodes of PRO to watch still. Due to a quirk of region licensing I still have all Trek from 66-05 on Netflix. Curious about S31. Hopeful for SFA. Disinterested in a comedy, but then I was wrong about LDS and PRO.

Most of all, because of Star Trek I chat to you lot daily.

So maybe, on the whole, all is pretty well.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I mean... they think of Trek as a historical period piece. Anything that can be viewed as an error or anachronism must be corrected or banished into an alternate timeline.

Then they should act like real historians and modify what they know when new information comes to light.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I will say that the whole TNG "reinterpreting the Prime Directive to prohibit saving a doomed culture" thing struck me as an in-universe tragic absurdity, although I understood that it was the simplest, most direct, and hardest-hitting way to tell those particular stories.

Then again, we're living in an era where tragically absurd reinterpretations of laws (generally to benefit those who stand to gain money and/or power from those interpretations) have become distressingly commonplace. I've been personally affected by at least one one of them, from at least a couple of decades ago, involving banking regulations.

 

[1001001]

As I like to joke, there's a reason Lois Lane doesn't wear pillbox hats anymore, or pound out her stories on an old Smith-Corona. And why Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys use computers and cell phones these days. And why even Sherlock Holmes ended up fighting Nazis back in the 1940s movies -- despite the fact that the first two films in that series took place in Victorian times.

Any long-running property is going to quietly adapt to changing times and audiences, and we used to just to go along with it -- before fandom got obsessed with "canon."

You’re far too rational.

You are not of the body.

 

[evilchumlee]

And it's not all banished and it's not ruined. Tired of the hyperbole.

And i'm tired of them randomly revisiting the same tired setting for no particular reason other than to try to appeal to nostalgia, without actually doing what it would take to appeal to nostalgia.

Just... make new things. Leave the old things alone. Build on the old stuff.

 

[fireproof78]

And i'm tired of them randomly revisiting the same tired setting for no particular reason other than to try to appeal to nostalgia, without actually doing what it would take to appeal to nostalgia.

Just... make new things. Leave the old things alone. Build on the old stuff.

Would love that.


But, nostalgia sells. People feel an affinity for the past, and that has been selling. If people stop buying nostalgia maybe it will stop being sold.

Then they should act like real historians and modify what they know when new information comes to light.

True. We are constantly learning about history, including things we thought we knew.

Also, dramatic recreations commonly have anachronistic aspects.