Is it me or does Connor Trinneer kind of look like Jonathan Frakes these days?
What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?
- Thread starter Ray Hardgrit
- Start date
Not to be that guy...... but Kirk states that he met Pike when he was promoted to Fleet Captain, which is what we saw in SNW.
Kirk later states that he took over command of the Enterprise from him, but it was not really implied that the two events occurred at the same time.
The fact that SNW's went to the effort to show Pike being promoted, even temporarily, to Fleet Captain when he met Kirk, shows that they do actually care about the continuity, dispite what many seem to think.
I did
I did a double take too.
It’s about the only thing in PIC3 you can see.
People in their twenties or thirties mostly. The version that costume is based on is from around 2004.
Put him in blue trunks and split top boots and then we’ll talk.
People in their twenties or thirties mostly. The version that costume is based on is from around 2004.
Put him in blue trunks and split top boots and then we’ll talk.
The nostalgist in me was more happy to see him fighting the Hulk in gold and brown…
That was my “happy spot “ as well.
This.
Nostalgia can be a factor for sure.
But also... I feel like a lot of things that can ascribed to "nostalgia" are more just... "I like a thing. I want more of that thing." It could be for 30 years ago, or last year. The passage of time is irrelevant. I just like things.
I use food analogies alot. It works. I enjoy sushi. I have enjoyed sushi for like, 25 years now. In fact I think I might get sushi for dinner tonight. Is me getting sushi "nostalgic"? No. I just like it and I want more of it. Food can be nostalgic.
In the case of something like Picard S3, is there an element of nostalgia? Absolutely! That's not a bad thing. Is there ONLY nostalgia? Absolutely not. The story builds on former stories, giving the story additional weight it would not have had. The passage of time and nostalgia factor certainly added something to it, but I believe one could get a similar effect if they had never watch TNG before and binged it prior to watching Picard.
I think nostalgia is part of the package when it comes to legacy IP. I don't think these corporations are investing in these media franchises without banking on some belief that there's an established audience that will watch because of nostalgia. But that nostalgia comes with the expectation of certain elements being there and not changed.
There's a fascinating book that was written about the history of Coca-Cola called "For God, Country, and Coca-Cola" that covers the period during the 1980s when the Coca-Cola Company changed the formula for Coca-Cola to "New Coke." There's all sorts of conspiracy theories about why Coca-Cola did it, but one fact the book covers is that the leadership realized they couldn't leave the old formula on shelves because they were afraid it would split their market and allow Pepsi to claim they had the lead in the soft drink market.
People who drank Coke went nuts and got ANGRY about it.
When Coca-Cola eventually relented and reintroduced the "classic" formula, they received letters from people thanking them. And I remember that one of the letters was from a woman who said something along the lines of: "I drank a coke when I was in labor, I had a coke after my father passed, and I thank you for doing this ... I feel like an old friend is coming home."
One of the most perplexing parts of it was that Coca-Cola did extensive taste tests before doing the move, and New Coke was preferred in the blind taste tests. This led people to realize that people's attachment to Coca-Cola went beyond just the taste of a drink. It involves an emotional attachment to the elements that people associate with coca-cola that they identify with moments in their lives. And when you change those elements to something people either don't recognize or won't accept, you upset the market for your product.
There's a fascinating book that was written about the history of Coca-Cola called "For God, Country, and Coca-Cola" that covers the period during the 1980s when the Coca-Cola Company changed the formula for Coca-Cola to "New Coke." There's all sorts of conspiracy theories about why Coca-Cola did it, but one fact the book covers is that the leadership realized they couldn't leave the old formula on shelves because they were afraid it would split their market and allow Pepsi to claim they had the lead in the soft drink market.
People who drank Coke went nuts and got ANGRY about it.
When Coca-Cola eventually relented and reintroduced the "classic" formula, they received letters from people thanking them. And I remember that one of the letters was from a woman who said something along the lines of: "I drank a coke when I was in labor, I had a coke after my father passed, and I thank you for doing this ... I feel like an old friend is coming home."
One of the most perplexing parts of it was that Coca-Cola did extensive taste tests before doing the move, and New Coke was preferred in the blind taste tests. This led people to realize that people's attachment to Coca-Cola went beyond just the taste of a drink. It involves an emotional attachment to the elements that people associate with coca-cola that they identify with moments in their lives. And when you change those elements to something people either don't recognize or won't accept, you upset the market for your product.
Last edited:
I will agree with this. Picard, overall and not just season 3, carries a much better weight and I say that as someone with passing familiarity, and limited interest, in TNG.
Where Season 3 breaks down for me is the "this is where we are most important" theme when they get back on the D. Yes, I'm aware there is a story purpose behind. Yes, I am aware that this was the "last ride" and that is a trope well worn in the Western style genre that Star Trek is built off of.
It probably speaks far more to my own personal frustration with Star Trek that says "you cannot move forward." The idea that the only place that you can make a difference is on a ship, or a specific ship, usually one called Enterprise. I saw it in Generations, in DS9 and saw in Season 3.
Add that in to the mystery box and Borg and Season 3 started out high and landed mediocre.
Exhibit A why I worry about people. It sounds like fear of something new because something you associated with isn't the same.
It should be part of the package, but it shouldn't be the whole thing. Nostalgia has a place, but it shouldn't be the driver of the series/story, unless you have a very capable writer handling it.
It's the nature of the show. Star Trek is designed around a team of people out in space solving problems, in its universe that's the absolute ideal, so when the characters move away from that they're moving to a less ideal position. At least as long as there are problems that need solving.
Definitely. There's lots of reasons why people are drawn to legacy IP and why they might not want change:
- Nostalgia: I want it to be just like it was to remind me of pleasant times in my past.
- Preference: I want it to be just like it was because what it was appealed to me.
- Immersion: I want it to be just like it was because I'm drawn to world building and consistent fictional realities.
- Philosophy: I want it to be just like it was because the writers had morals and messages they wanted it to represent.
Which is a terrible ideal to show to people. "You only have one position that's important to stay there and never grow!"
Yes, a bit reductionist, but even Star Trek steers in to that with the "don't let them promote you" and rewards people who refuse promotion, refuse greater responsibility! What?
If you are referring to Kirk talking to Picard in GENERATIONS, I'd argue that a starship captain is the position where one person CAN make the most difference in a greater amount of places.
I don't know. More than once I've logged into a discussion of the latest new Trek episode, hoping to find a spirited discussion of the actual story in question, only to find the thread hijacked, for pages and pages at a time, by yet another interminable debate about "canon" and "timelines," all because the episode may or may not have contradicted a couple of lines of dialogue from "Return of the Archons" or whatever. Or because of some hair-splitting discrepancy in a starship design.
As opposed to, you know, talking about the actual episode: the plot, the characters, the relationships and moral dilemmas, etc. Or even just what people's favorite lines or biggest problems with the story are.
It can get frustrating sometimes.
Sometimes?
Kirk says you can still make a difference.
Sounds like the only way, not the greatest way.
Mileage, etc.
I do think cal888 was onto something several pages ago about "canon people" versus "story people" and their conflicting priorities. There's probably an interesting debate to be had about whether the overall world-building is the story or just the backdrop for the stories.
And not just with regards to Star Trek.
I confess: back when I was a full-time editor at Tor Books, my heart would sink a little whenever a new submission would begin with several pages of maps, glossaries, geneologies, and a capsule history of the realm/universe going back umpteen generations. This didn't necessarily guarantee that the author was more into the world-building than the actual story, characters, prose style, etc, but it was a red flag.
Even as I concede that this would not be a problem for a sizable segment of the SFF audience.
I guess that puts me over in the "story people" camp.
And not just with regards to Star Trek.
I confess: back when I was a full-time editor at Tor Books, my heart would sink a little whenever a new submission would begin with several pages of maps, glossaries, geneologies, and a capsule history of the realm/universe going back umpteen generations. This didn't necessarily guarantee that the author was more into the world-building than the actual story, characters, prose style, etc, but it was a red flag.
Even as I concede that this would not be a problem for a sizable segment of the SFF audience.
I guess that puts me over in the "story people" camp.
It helped heal decades of exterme dislike / hate for TNG, i did not consider myself a fan, did not realize there was nostalgia to play on; i have always thought the D was, yes, the ugly fat one, the marriott in space, all of that.
Picard Season 3 still had me in the feels.
I'm rewatching the series for the first time in 20+ years because of it.
Similar threads
- Locked
