By interfering?
I feel like interfering can exploit too.
And why are they responsible to another race they would not otherwise interact with?
How Messed Up is the Prime Directive?
- Thread starter Tallguy
- Start date
I feel like interfering can exploit too.
And why are they responsible to another race they would not otherwise interact with?
Because they are invaders. They weren’t invited.
If they’re tromping around someone’s world, they should help the world if it’s endangered from a natural disaster.
Not hard.
And if they're not they should stay away and not interfere. Which was what I was talking about not whatever you're on about.
I assert in the TOS era makes the most sense.
SPOCK: Then the Prime Directive is in full force, Captain?
KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilisations.
That's it. "No interference" was limited to the social development of the planet. Until said planet is capable of understanding and accepting there are countless alien civilizations out there, that information needs to remain hidden from them.
So it was never "no interference in any way, shape, or form." It was "don't interfere with their social growth and development." Let them figure out on their own racism is bad, but don't let them go extinct, either.
So, save Miramanee's planet from the asteroid. Georgiou and Bernham can restore water to the people hibernating in the desert. Scotty can cause a city wide blackout. It's OK to interfere as long as it looks normal, natural, or unexplained.
But, no, it's wrong to turn Ekos into a Nazi theme planet. That is social interference. It's wrong to give the hill people superior weapons to defeat the village people. Overthrowing primitive governments and supplying arms to aboriginese is social interference.
Saving Drema IV? That's acceptable as long as the citizens are unaware of Federation involvement. How the D accomplished this was the right way to do it, but they should have found this solution sooner. The people in Homeward? Well, there was no way out of that one without tipping their hand immediately. It's impossible to move a tribe or village to another planet and remain secret. Not understanding what caused a blackout (Bread and Circuses) is one thing, having a village wake up on a new planet with new terrain, different climate and totally different constellations is something else.
To put this in 21st century terms - sending or not sending support to the war in Ukraine or Israel is diplomacy and not a Prime Directive matter. Israel, Palestine, Russia, and Ukraine know and understand and have relations with the rest of the world. In contrast, interfering with the people on North Sentinel island is a violation of the PD because they are barely aware the rest of the world exists and they use force to prevent expanding their knowledge of the outside world.
"Don't interfere or you might make Nazis!" Well... Don't make them into Nazis! What the heck? That shouldn't be TOO hard to avoid! "Hey. I said NO concentration camps! There are five concentration camps! Start over! Hey Van Brannn, put the V2 plans DOWN."
I just realized that the only PD episode I like is A Private Little War.
If a planet is going to go extinct and you can save a village? WTF not? (And they DO.) (You notice we never see an episode where Picard or whoever actually gets their way and actually lets everyone die? Do that episode and I might give the writers a smidge more credibility.) (I am remembering an episode where they sail away all sad. Was that a fan film? Or am I just remembering the end of TNGs Lower Decks?)
What a Private Little War does is say "OK, we know that the right thing is to let these people develop. But what if some other space faring race says 'That's Root Beer drinking fiddle faddle!" (You want to make it even MORE interesting? Instead of the gagh eating baby killing Klingons it's the intergalactic equivalent to Albert Schweitzer who is peeing into the pool.)
Make someone like the Prophets or the Organians anti-PD. That'll be FUN! "Captain, the small village of starving farmers seem to have been replaced with three sky scrapers and a matter-anti matter powered replicator system. And something they are calling 'Tik Tok'."
They are shown to be very non interference in ENTERPRISE.
But we've seen in Errand of Mercy that they have a line. And boy howdy do they interfere then.
Anyway, I don't care. Pick your established Nearly Omnipotent Beings or make up a new one. Just make them wild interfering lunatics. And make everything they do GOOD. (Feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, preventing the occasional extinction level event.)
Kevin Uxbridge's less guilt ridden younger sister.
So an altruistic but far more interesting and better written Q?
The trouble I have with the Prime Directive is that it's supposed to be the Federation's idea of the right thing to do. It's as close to morally correct as our culture can come up with. But nearly every time our heroes break it, that's presented as being the right thing to do. Episodes like Homeward don't actually agree with the Prime Directive, they're just using it for drama.
And this has gotten more exaggerated over time. In the TNG era the heroes learn that maybe it's okay to save a few people from a planetary genocide. In the SNW era, Pike's being smug as finds a way to get around the Federation bureaucracy and do the right thing despite the law!
Ideally the Prime Directive should be used as a device to let our heroes have fun undercover adventures where they figure out what's happening on a planet without giving away that they're aliens with advanced technology. Or to give them a genuine moral dilemma between doing what they know is right for a culture and helping out a group they've just met... or something like that. A rule isn't going to fit every situation and the heroes have to make their own choices.
Basically the Prime Directive should be a reflection of how enlightened we are and protection against us repeating the mistakes of the past, not a demand for inaction when people are in need or an obstacle for the actual good guys to get past.
And this has gotten more exaggerated over time. In the TNG era the heroes learn that maybe it's okay to save a few people from a planetary genocide. In the SNW era, Pike's being smug as finds a way to get around the Federation bureaucracy and do the right thing despite the law!
Ideally the Prime Directive should be used as a device to let our heroes have fun undercover adventures where they figure out what's happening on a planet without giving away that they're aliens with advanced technology. Or to give them a genuine moral dilemma between doing what they know is right for a culture and helping out a group they've just met... or something like that. A rule isn't going to fit every situation and the heroes have to make their own choices.
Basically the Prime Directive should be a reflection of how enlightened we are and protection against us repeating the mistakes of the past, not a demand for inaction when people are in need or an obstacle for the actual good guys to get past.
It was a more Kirkian situation where the damage had already been done so he was repairing it.
Mind you, the planet that developed the Warp Bomb was apparently in a cold war era of global tension (you're not going to use a WMD on insurrectionists in your own territory no matter what the imagery that they used of domestic strife). And they would presumably have already NOT nuked themselves to the stone age with more primitive (compared to a warp bomb) weapons. So... Why were they on a greater precipice with a more powerful weapon such that Pike "had" to intervene?
But no matter. I loved the episode. It made me fall in love with this show. And I haven't wavered once ever since. (Not even A Quality of Mercy.) While I can certainly find many captains "smug" from time to time, I have never found Pike to be this.
But, that's what it is meant to prevent is mistakes in the past were interference led to disaster. Where they were unable to account for all the variables and so created more war or conflict.
The Prime Directive, no matter how well intentioned, is a rule that is going to get broken because every situation is going to be different. It isn't "smug" on their part to sit back and go "What are the consequences of our actions?" and for a captain to determine that breaking this rule is going to benefit more than allowing what the rules demand.
Not sure I agree with that assessment.
Yes, interference means accepting some responsibility, but not unlimited. They'd certainly be responsible for helping the Booraalans deal with the culture shock, but I doubt they'd still be responsible for any hypothetical interstellar war 500 years later. (Not sure where the line should be drawn exactly, though.)
Picard would have let the asteroid hit Mirimanee's world, even if there was a lost crewman on it.
Miramanee's people weren't native to that planet, they had been transported there from earth a couple thousand years ago. So arguably, the prime directive doesn't apply.
I think it would. If you're there for a thousand years, you're a native.
Given the wide range of PD interpretations over the course of the franchise (everything from “Nope, let ‘em fry” to “Don’t interfere — unless they’re not 1960s-manly enough” to “Of course save them!”), I could absolutely see the Prime Directive becoming the crux of a Federation Civil War to decide the issue. Though one hopes they decide it via “constitutional convention” instead.
Why? There is nothing existential about what happens in lands the citizens didn't know about until the day before yesterday. It seems to only affect Starfleet officers in the middle of a situation.
not according to the Federation Council
DOUGHERTY: I'm acting on orders from the Federation Council.
PICARD: How can there be an order to abandon the Prime Directive?
DOUGHERTY: The Prime Directive doesn't apply. These people are not indigenous to this planet.
I side with Picard on this one. Really, Forceful relocation? The PD is the most wishy washy rule ever.
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