How do you feel about "Relics"?

[Qonundrum]

After rewatching the episode I have mixed feelings.

^^this

Oddly enough, my pancake batter, comprised of wheat flour, rice flower, egg, egg substitute, mashed-up cauliflower, and bits of avocado blap purée, with blueberries and beets on top, also feels the same way.

I like that Scotty was brought back and the special appearance of James Doohan as guest star.

Doohan's acting is phenomenal.

The confrontation of the generations and of the old Enterprise with the new Enterprise.

Scotty was understandably hyper, but even a chief engineer would know not to act like a 7 year-old, or Dr Smith from Lost in Space, and go touching every control panel he sees.

To see that Scotty, even when it's not his time, still has it and in the end saves the Enterprise.

^^this. It makes up for a lot of the nitpicks.

What feels weird to me is that he stayed in this transport buffer for 75 years.

Without any failure (due in part to some redundant/backup systems, what's the MTBF of each one and how long is said ship expected to remain in service in the first place, et cetera... )

Even when it's just fiction, isn't it quite unreal? And when he gets out of it it's like he just stayed there for a few seconds.

He doesn't seemed harmed or affected in any way and takes it very easy that he is suddenly 75 years ahead.

Would one feel the passage of time if contained as an independent array of molecules? But 75 years, there should be something of a shock.

At least he's not Riker, but that plot demanded he figure out the imperfect future wasn't the real future. But I digress.

And in the end we learn that he will now spend the rest of his life in this future. It's the last thing we (so far) hear about Scotty's future story in Star Trek.
Somehow I'm not really happy wtih it, how it was told in this episode. And I can't really explain why...I guess it's just not satisfying and I expected something else.

Wasn't he already headed to the Bayview retirement village, where he'd get bored by the anecdotes of Diana Trent and Tom Ballard?

Finally another question. Couldn't this technology, to keep somebody in the buffer for a long time without affects or aging, be used in some ways?

Easily. Sadly, as with "Unnatural Selection" and a few dozen episodes, it's all quietly forgotten because the makers knew it'd become a "get out of plot" card very quickly, as well as losing any special nature*. Thankfully, if the right sequel show were to be made, they could have a field day with all of this. Shame there's no season 6 of "Lower Decks", or any more "Prodigy" or "Discovery" either since all the remaining shows are prequels...

* like the warp core breach trope, using it once under tight constrained circumstances can be exciting. Used too frequently, it feels like a disservice to the story way too quickly and begs other questions - like the oft-asked "Why is the 1701-D infinitely more fragile than the original was?" For which the prevailing answer seems to be, "Because the original didn't have seven seasons, so there, piffle!" ​

Thank you for your opinions in advance.

Thank you for another great post!

 

[Mojochi]

On the whole, I like the episode. It sure doesn't do any favors for old Scotty though. Thank goodness they cut his scene with Troi, or he'd have just looked like an annoying, bitter old man. Albeit, without it, it makes Troi look bad at her job, not being around at all for a person who clearly needs therapy.

I don't have much issue with the transporter gimmick. It is Star Trek after all, & Scotty is supposed to be a miracle worker. My main gripe is the glaring pothole of the Dyson Sphere door... Not the Dyson Sphere itself, which is pretty cool actually, just the door bit.

During their search for The Enterprise, Geordi & Scotty discover that the Dyson Sphere door is activated by their hail frequency. So they open it, at a safe distance, & call the D, which makes for the door.

Our climax is the D making my haste through the door, all sidewayslike, & Scotty sacrificing the Jenolan as a literal doorstop, while they hold it together down to the last second, as per his brand.

But what's the rush? Why are we treating the escape like a crisis? They know how to safely open the door any time they want! Just open the door, contact the D, let it close, & when the D is in position, open it again for them to leisurely exit at their convenience.

They've drummed up a crisis where none should be, for drama's sake. At least toss a line of exposition in there that nullifies that option.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

But what's the rush? Why are we treating the escape like a crisis? They know how to safely open the door any time they want! Just open the door, contact the D, let it close, & when the D is in position, open it again for them to leisurely exit at their convenience.

If I recall, the Enterprise was being cooked by the star, with shields about to run out. Scotty and Geordi didn't know things were so desperate when they wedged the Jenolen in the door, but it was lucky they did as the Enterprise only had a couple of minutes left.

 

[evilchumlee]

Likewise with the "Transporter is amazing" thing, at least they tried to explain how fragile an idea it was. if an engineer as accomplished as Scotty couldn't make it work safely, then clearly it's not going to be used.

We're not talking about a cure for aging here.

Yeah. Sometimes people tend to get hung up on "This happened, therefore it can always happen". That's not the case. It's similar to the creation to Thomas Riker... that should have been impossible. Transporters don't work like that. But there was an absolutely, astronomically unlikely set of circumstances that caused it that simply could never be replicated ever again...

...and yet I still occasionally see people with a comment like, "Why don't they..."

Because they can't.

It's a similar argument to people asking why they don't use transporters for like, any medical issue. Because they don't work like that. If you have say, a broken leg... you can't transport in and out and your leg is fixed. It's not how it works. It builds you back the way you went in, unless there is some quadrillion-in-one chance that something exotic occurs. Something like a biofilter can work because it's just not materializing everything, but even that isn't going to be perfect. The transporter has to be 100% certain it's removing the right thing and removing the thing won't have any affect on anything else.

 

[Mojochi]

If I recall, the Enterprise was being cooked by the star, with shields about to run out. Scotty and Geordi didn't know things were so desperate when they wedged the Jenolen in the door, but it was lucky they did as the Enterprise only had a couple of minutes left.

The solar activity was affecting the shields & they might've been down to like 10%. I can't recall the numbers. Still seems to me like they'd had time to just open the door a 2nd time lol

 

[evilchumlee]

The solar activity was affecting the shields & they might've been down to like 10%. I can't recall the numbers. Still seems to me like they'd had time to just open the door a 2nd time lol

I had always just assumed they had no guarantee the door would open again.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This episode was a ratings stunt like the Spock episode in the previous season, unlike the Spock episode I enjoyed this one.

Calling the Spock episode out for being a stunt (and not enjoyable) is spot-on.

I like the episode. It was fun to see Scotty again, and how he reacted to the 24th Century.

Some people don't like how Geordi treated him, but I can understand. Scotty waltzing into Engineering, imposing himself, and acting like he knew what he was doing would be like someone from 1949 doing the same in 2024. I'd think this person from Midcentury would be pretty arrogant to think they could just wing their way through Today.

From the tech presented in the TOS movies (or post, in Scotty's case) and TNG, there appears to be less of a technological gap between the two eras than real world 1949 and 2024. Yeah, Geordi behaved as if Scotty was completely out of place, but again, what we the audience viewed in the TOS movies and TNG, there's not some night and day technological difference.

 

[Mojochi]

I had always just assumed they had no guarantee the door would open again.

I just never could make that leap. The Jenolan crew triggered it. The Enterprise crew triggered it. Scotty & Geordi triggered it, managing to stay at a safe distance. It seems to pretty reliably open when triggered on 3 different occasions

The depleting shields is a good point for why they'd be hurried, but even still. It's pretty clear they meant the door to open whenever it got triggered, & it really didn't take long to open

 

[Riley]

I was thinking of "Relics" today and the oft-repeated defense that I've read here and there through the years: "No one would really know who a guy from a century ago is." It occurred to me today that A) it's only been around 80 years and most importantly, B) Scotty is, IMO, very much a genius and pioneer like Albert Einstein. He also served on the most illustrious and legendary starship in the history of the Federation. He's absolutely going to be recognized and, most importantly, treated with awe and respect. I also think it's a glaring issue that there's not one scene featuring a crewmember, maybe Picard or Troi, telling Scotty that McCoy and Spock are still alive. The TNG rule was to leave the fates of TOS characters vague, but we already knew about McCoy and Spock.

I graduated high school in 1994, and it was a year filled with a lot of great memories, even the bittersweet ones. The Enterprise-B treated like a joke, Picard's family coldly killed off, the needless destruction of one of many of Andy Probert's timeless and transcendent designs, and Captain James T. Kirk, the heart and soul of Star Trek, given nothing more than a glorified cameo and an inglorious death remain bitter memories even thirty years later. Of all the things I hold against Berman, it's this film.

 

[tomalak301]

I like the episode, but I think they could have picked a better episode for the Viewers Choice Marathon. The only reason it was there was because of Scotty, but overall, the episode is just decent. Also, this whole thing of Scotty should be treated like Royalty and Geordi was too hard on him never made sense to me. Scotty was a relic and he was in the way. Geordi was under pressure to get something done for Picard, and Scotty wouldn't let him. What was Geordi supposed to do. The fact that they both took the Jenolin mission made up for the beginning of the episode and the point of it was a really good one. Also, giving Scotty one of the shuttles makes me think yeah he was treated really well all things considered.

Going back to the whole VCM thing, I think an episode like Measure of a Man should have been in Relics' place. There were some good episodes in Seasons 1 and 2 and MOAM was probably the best.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

I don't think he should have been treated like royalty but he should have gotten more respect being the veteran he was. I got the impression that we were supposed to ignore him because he was old and inconvenient to the crew.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The trouble that Scotty and Geordi had was that Scotty wasn't going to be satisfied unless he was actively working in engineering, and Geordi wasn't going to be satisfied unless all the distractions were gone and he could get on with the job he needed to do, so the two were inevitably going to come into conflict. It happens really fast in the episode and makes Geordi look a bit of a jerk, but Scotty has too much of a gap in his knowledge and too much experience as a boss to remain in that room while regular work is going on.

 

[Tallguy]

The trouble that Scotty and Geordi had was that Scotty

was written like a ninny.

 

[Mojochi]

I was thinking of "Relics" today and the oft-repeated defense that I've read here and there through the years: "No one would really know who a guy from a century ago is." It occurred to me today that A) it's only been around 80 years and most importantly, B) Scotty is, IMO, very much a genius and pioneer like Albert Einstein. He also served on the most illustrious and legendary starship in the history of the Federation. He's absolutely going to be recognized and, most importantly, treated with awe and respect.

Frankly, Scotty is the equivalent to Apollo 11's Michael Collins, & if people don't know that person, it's because they aren't bothering to know anyone important at all. Starfleet people would know. They would know him just as much as McCoy, who is still being treated like an ambassador, & Kirk, Spock, Sarek etc... like legends. His bleeding name is still all over the tech guidelines. He wrote the book. He might understandably feel left behind, but he is not forgotten, & I can't accept otherwise

 

[at Quark's]

there was a scene either written or filmed, it's in the novelization.

Never seen or read that scene.

However, I have the feeling a counseling session of Scotty with Deanna wouldn't go that well. He doesn't strike me as particularly amenable to her kind of psychobabble.

 

[tomalak301]

I don't think he should have been treated like royalty but he should have gotten more respect being the veteran he was. I got the impression that we were supposed to ignore him because he was old and inconvenient to the crew.

Did he though? It seemed like Picard treated him really well. I think the only one who didn't realistically treat Scotty all that well might have been either Riker or Worf. I can understand Worf considering when Scotty served, Klingons were enemies of the Federation. Riker seems to be rude to everyone, and the more I watch TNG, the more I'm actually not a Riker fan (And some of this is in reaction to how he treated Jellico).

 

[Mojochi]

Did he though? It seemed like Picard treated him really well. I think the only one who didn't realistically treat Scotty all that well might have been either Riker or Worf. I can understand Worf considering when Scotty served, Klingons were enemies of the Federation. Riker seems to be rude to everyone, and the more I watch TNG, the more I'm actually not a Riker fan (And some of this is in reaction to how he treated Jellico).

Same. Riker just becomes incredibly self-righteous as they went on, to Barclay, to Ro, to Jellico, to Shelby, to Sam Lavelle, even to his own damn clone Tom, and so on. Sometimes its arguably justified, but sometimes not. What's more relevant is that it's habitual.

Frankly, I realize Riker wasn't to blame for the accusations brought against him in A Matter of Perspective, & a lot of Apgar's behavior was due to underhandedness on his own part, but it's easy to see why he'd have thought Riker was there to bust him.

Riker does come off as unduly authoritative & condemnatory a lot. Bear in mind that both of the women in that trial knew nothing about Apgar's scheme. They just immediately & independently jumped to "that jerk Riker did it", which means he must have made a damn poor impression, & my guess is it's because he's bloody awful at de-escalation & wears his pomposity like it's part of his uniform

 

[Iamnotspock]

From the tech presented in the TOS movies (or post, in Scotty's case) and TNG, there appears to be less of a technological gap between the two eras than real world 1949 and 2024. Yeah, Geordi behaved as if Scotty was completely out of place, but again, what we the audience viewed in the TOS movies and TNG, there's not some night and day technological difference.

Well, by 2369, they were using a multiphase auto-containment warp field, meant to operate above three percent, and had started recompositing the dilithium crystals while they were still inside the articulation frame. Geordi behaved as if Scotty was completely out of place because he was, in ways that mattered in the moment, and we were told why.

And of course this is the moment when they absolutely solidified that the TOS Enterprise absolutely DID look like the TV show!

It was one TV show homaging another TV show. It worked perfectly for the purposes of nostalgia in the context of this episode, though sadly it's hamstrung some fans' enjoyment of other TV shows that have chosen not to adhere to the same sense of visual literalism in their scenery.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It was one TV show homaging another TV show. It worked perfectly for the purposes of nostalgia in the context of this episode, though sadly it's hamstrung some fans' enjoyment of other TV shows that have chosen not to adhere to the same sense of visual literalism in their scenery.

I don't need a fantastic example of it being done right to be frustrated by all the times it's been done wrong by other things.

 

[Mojochi]

Well, by 2369, they were using a multiphase auto-containment warp field, meant to operate above three percent, and had started recompositing the dilithium crystals while they were still inside the articulation frame. Geordi behaved as if Scotty was completely out of place because he was, in ways that mattered in the moment, and we were told why.

I'll take a little umbrage with this. It's not as if Scotty was completely out of his element. Once Geordi explained it to him, he totally understood. The issue is Geordi understandably doesn't have time for an overview of all the advances, right at that moment, which was how I'd interpret his reactions.

It was a bit unrealistic of Scotty to assume he'd be able to jump in like he hadn't missed a beat, but how is he supposed to know that really? It shouldn't have to take your captain pleading with you to make the guy feel he belongs, for you to maybe get that on your own.

TBH, the writers distort the personality of both characters a fair amount to make that conflict work IMHO. Neither is being as true to their character as we've known them. Plus the two people who would be invaluable to Scotty in his situation, Troi & Data, are both conspicuously being withheld.

Data would be more than willing to give Scotty a whole breakdown of what he's missed & Troi could easily help him readjust socially. A lot of concessions are being made to further this plot IMHO.