Ok. What is the chance of a Picard spinoff?

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Is it impossible for something to be both brilliant and nostalgic at the same time? Or does one automatically cancel the other out?

(Though I hesitate to use the term "brilliant". That sets the expectations unrealistically high for a franchise that, though I love it to death, can only be called that a small handful of times)

 

[Daedalus]

The one thing everyone should remember is that Legacy just doesn't exist yet, nor may it ever. For anyone to claim to know what form it would take just seems excessively premature at this stage. Even the title might change.

How did Bryan Fuller's Discovery go in the end? Anyone? I don't remember any episode which had the USS Discovery slip into Klingon space disguised as a D7. Things change, people move on. I don't think he had a jump to the 32nd century in mind when he first started, either.

This is years away, if ever. So its really not worth assuming you'll get a nostalgia fest. A Picard spin-off is a reasonable assumption, but Legacy is just vaporware.

 

[Dukhat]

Is it impossible for something to be both brilliant and nostalgic at the same time? Or does one automatically cancel the other out?

I thought nuDoctor Who series 1 (Christopher Eccleston) was both brilliant and nostalgic. We had the return of Doctor Who, but in a way that wasn't slapping me in the face with a ton of memberberries. On the contrary, we had the known factors (this was indeed the Doctor, and he has his Tardis (albeit with a new control room but still with identifiable features such as the control console, time rotor, etc.). But instead of over-reliance on nostalgia, we're presented with a scenario where something very bad happened between the '96 movie and the first episode of the new show, but we don't know what it is, how it affected the Doctor, or what happened to the Time Lords and Daleks, as they don't seem to be around anymore. Over time we slowly figure out what's going on. We also see old enemies being used in new ways, such as the Cybus Cybermen. I don't really see this type of thing happening with 'Legacy.' I see some sort of checklist being marked off for each and every little thing or person they feel the need to revisit, just like Lower Decks did. Is Legacy just going to be the live-action version of LDS, only without the stupid humor?

 

[Campe]

Is it impossible for something to be both brilliant and nostalgic at the same time? Or does one automatically cancel the other out?

(Though I hesitate to use the term "brilliant". That sets the expectations unrealistically high for a franchise that, though I love it to death, can only be called that a small handful of times)

Of course it’s not impossible. Prodigy season 2 is excellent and leans heavily on nostalgia. But it does it in a way that’s organic. Thats what I would like to see. And my personal biggest issue about Picard season 3, and by extension the Legacy pitch that he’s presented to the fans, is that it does not feel organic. But that is my opinion alone.

 

[Daedalus]

Of course it’s not impossible. Prodigy season 2 is excellent and leans heavily on nostalgia. But it does it in a way that’s organic. Thats what I would like to see. And my personal biggest issue about Picard season 3, and by extension the Legacy pitch that he’s presented to the fans, is that it does not feel organic. But that is my opinion alone.

As much as I love Prodigy Season 2, could the appearance of, say Okona be seen as a little bit inorganic? You could argue that it was a bit arbitrary and didn't need to happen, as it didn't seem to add to the plot much.

 

[Campe]

As much as I love Prodigy Season 2, could the appearance of, say Okona be seen as a little bit inorganic? You could argue that it was a bit arbitrary and didn't need to happen, as it didn't seem to add to the plot much.

The one example where its not that organic (and that I honestly forgot about because it was largely a cameo).

 

[Nerys Myk]

The one example where its not that organic (and that I honestly forgot about because it was largely a cameo).

It was used to show they were in a different reality. So I didn't mind.

 

[Lord Garth]

The one thing everyone should remember is that Legacy just doesn't exist yet, nor may it ever. For anyone to claim to know what form it would take just seems excessively premature at this stage. Even the title might change.

How did Bryan Fuller's Discovery go in the end? Anyone? I don't remember any episode which had the USS Discovery slip into Klingon space disguised as a D7. Things change, people move on. I don't think he had a jump to the 32nd century in mind when he first started, either.

This is years away, if ever. So its really not worth assuming you'll get a nostalgia fest. A Picard spin-off is a reasonable assumption, but Legacy is just vaporware.

Yeah.

I never thought I'd say this but I miss the days when the Incessant Complaining was about how dark the sets looked.

Plus, it's hard-wired in my brain that "nostalgia" means the '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s. Not the '90s or '00s. It's the music rule. When I'm turning on the radio, and I hear something from the '50s-'70s it's "clearly nostalgic". It's before my lifetime. When I hear something from the '80s, I think "okay, it's my lifetime so it hits differently, but I'll still accept it as nostalgic." The '90s is when the music starts to sound "modern" IMO. The early-'00s still sounds like the '90s, but the rest of the '00s, especially the late-'00s, I think of as "Today", just like the '10s and 2020s. Then there's the fashion. Every decade from the '50s to the '90s, I can tell the obvious differences immediately. From the '00s to today, it blurs together. So, something from 20 years ago, despite how long ago it was, doesn't register to me as "retro", just "old".

I think anyone who's my age and calls something like Nemesis (or anything else) from 2002 "nostalgic" is full of it. My response would be, "How old are you? 12?"

Which is part of why I think "nostalgia" is just a buzzword and a shorthand to use in place of a detailed argument.

 

[fireproof78]

Is it impossible for something to be both brilliant and nostalgic at the same time? Or does one automatically cancel the other out?

(Though I hesitate to use the term "brilliant". That sets the expectations unrealistically high for a franchise that, though I love it to death, can only be called that a small handful of times)

Of course not. It is, as others note, all in the execution. Nostalgia is like a spice and will appeal in different varieties to different people. I'm not categorically against nostalgia, but it gives me pause in a way that other things do not.

What hurts in the use of the nostalgia is the feeling that it is pandering to me as a fan. Saying "Hey, look at this? It's based on this thing you love." And that doesn't make me feel warm and satisfied, but pandered to, which I hate.

 

[Campe]

Plus, it's hard-wired in my brain that "nostalgia" means the '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s. Not the '90s or '00s. It's the music rule. When I'm turning on the radio, and I hear something from the '50s-'70s it's "clearly nostalgic". It's before my lifetime. When I hear something from the '80s, I think "okay, it's my lifetime so it hits differently, but I'll still accept it as nostalgic." The '90s is when the music starts to sound "modern" IMO. The early-'00s still sounds like the '90s, but the rest of the '00s, especially the late-'00s, I think of as "Today", just like the '10s and 2020s. Then there's the fashion. Every decade from the '50s to the '90s, I can tell the obvious differences immediately. From the '00s to today, it blurs together. So, something from 20 years ago, despite how long ago it was, doesn't register to me as "retro", just "old".

I think anyone who's my age and calls something like Nemesis (or anything else) from 2002 "nostalgic" is full of it. My response would be, "How old are you? 12?"

Which is part of why I think "nostalgia" is just a buzzword and a shorthand to use in place of a detailed argument.

Hate to break it to you, man, but 2002 was over 20 years ago. I get your perspective! Absolutely! I keep thinking the 1990s weren't that long ago. But they really were. The definition of nostalgia is: "a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations." You can be nostalgic about last year. Hell, you can be nostalgic about last week if you want to. Nostalgia doesn't mean "something from before I was born."

 

[Quinton]

In light of over a year having passed since I posted the first reply in this thread, I would like to amend my answer to 51.2%.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

What hurts in the use of the nostalgia is the feeling that it is pandering to me as a fan. Saying "Hey, look at this? It's based on this thing you love." And that doesn't make me feel warm and satisfied, but pandered to, which I hate.

I dunno, it almost sounds like anything with the words "Star Trek" in front of it can be accused of being nostalgic. "Hey, remember warp speed, starships, captains and transporters?"

If we're splitting hairs at least. People are just using the term now to mean "I personally don't like this" and trying to make the people who do like it feel bad about it. And as long as it's called "Star Trek", people can find what they want about nostalgia in it and hate on it.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno, it almost sounds like anything with the words "Star Trek" in front of it can be accused of being nostalgic. "Hey, remember warp speed, starships, captains and transporters?"

If we're splitting hairs at least. People are just using the term now to mean "I personally don't like this" and trying to make the people who do like it feel bad about it. And as long as it's called "Star Trek", people can find what they want about nostalgia in it and hate on it.

I see your point and really wish I could clarify further. I mean, it took me forever to warm up to TNG but I have episodes I genuinely like from that series, even if I don't rate the whole series that highly.

But, to hair split further, it's not just "hey look, something familiar." It's the feeling of "Hey look, I know you like this so you must like it now because we put in this familiar thing." It's almost a feeling of force because it calls back to the past.

For want of a better example, I'll grab an anecdote from my favorite outdoor humorist. He discussed how difficult it was being a kid who loved hunting and fishing and his mom would tell family members to buy him something "Outdoorsy." So, he ended up with two silk ties in the same of fish.

It doesn't capture what I feel, but it's as close as I can get right now. It's that feeling of being told "You must like it because a) it's popular so it must be good. b) It has these continuity call backs of characters you like so it must be good. and c) if you don't like it you must not like Star Trek."

It's not just one thing, but a whole lot of little things that stack up to feel very pandering and yet looking down on me all at once.

No clue if that made any sense.

 

[Danja]

That would be great. But Terry’s pitch for Legacy was steeped in nostalgia. I believe he could do something brilliant not pulling from the memory banks. But we’ll see if that’s the case. I’m also curious as to what that might look like.

Terry was just WAY over the top (I'm not terribly interested in revisting Bajor just for the hell of it, thank you very much).

 

[Campe]

Terry was just WAY over the top (I'm not terribly interested in revisting Bajor just for the help of it, thank you very much).

Frankly seeing where Bajor is now is actually one thing that does interest me. At the same time, I worry that will bring Sisko back. I love DS9 and Sisko is amazing, but any follow-up on that aspect would be extremely disappointing. But so many other things I just have no interest in in the slightest. I don't want a "This week, Miles O'Brien joins the Enterprise crew as we discover why he's the most important person in Starfleet" followed by the next week, "the Enterprise visits that random planet from VOY season 3, episode 12 to see how they messed up." I'd rather just not on all of it. But I'm in the minority, and I know that.

 

[Danja]

It should have said, "Just for the hell of it" (Stupid autocorrect! )

 

[Lord Garth]

Hate to break it to you, man, but 2002 was over 20 years ago. I get your perspective! Absolutely! I keep thinking the 1990s weren't that long ago. But they really were. The definition of nostalgia is: "a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations." You can be nostalgic about last year. Hell, you can be nostalgic about last week if you want to. Nostalgia doesn't mean "something from before I was born."

I'm reminded of a Facebook post someone posted somewhere.

"What you think Star Trek was 20 years ago" --> Shows an image of TNG.
"What Star Trek actually was 20 years ago" --> Shows an image of ENT.

My Brain: "Yes, that's true."
Everything other fiber of my being: "No! No way! Get the fuck out of here!"

Confession Time: To me, everything after VOY ended is, "That new stuff!" All of it. Some of it I like, some of it I don't, but still...

 

[HotRod]

Frankly seeing where Bajor is now is actually one thing that does interest me. At the same time, I worry that will bring Sisko back. I love DS9 and Sisko is amazing, but any follow-up on that aspect would be extremely disappointing. But so many other things I just have no interest in in the slightest. I don't want a "This week, Miles O'Brien joins the Enterprise crew as we discover why he's the most important person in Starfleet" followed by the next week, "the Enterprise visits that random planet from VOY season 3, episode 12 to see how they messed up." I'd rather just not on all of it. But I'm in the minority, and I know that.

But how else will we know if the anti-virus shared with the Tak Tak was 100% effective against the Macrovirus? HOW WILL WE KNOW!?

 

[Campe]

But how else will we know if the anti-virus shared with the Tak Tak was 100% effective against the Macrovirus? HOW WILL WE KNOW!?

You actually looked up that "Macrocosm" was Voyager, season 3, episode 12! I love it!

 

[James Cole]

Which is part of why I think "nostalgia" is just a buzzword and a shorthand to use in place of a detailed argument.

What's hilarious is that Terry Matalas did several YouTube and podcast interviews about what Legacy could potentially be. People are falling into the trap of focusing on a few specific comments thrown out as hypotheticals and then blowing them out of proportion. But of course this BBS runs on bad faith hyperbole, and because of that, potential series Legacy is now practically generating more traffic on this site than the recently ended DISCOVERY