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Spoilers Empire of Death grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Empire of Death?


  • Total voters
    55
We'll have to agree to disagree. But, no, doesn't make any sense. He literally couldn't see the mom's face. He tried and failed. :shrug:

And, because it was so important to Ruby, the mom's face should've stood out from the background that she didn't care about.

Almost as if Louise had had a perception Filter cast on her by a TARDIS who was trying to dump her awful boyfriend.
 
I've genuinely been impressed with Bonnie Langford's acting. I wasn't one who hated Mel originally back in the 80s, but we really had no sense of her acting chops back then. She's been quite solid! :techman:

Bonnie's done another 50 Doctor who audio serials over the last quarter century to perfect the character in a way that a thousand woolly cat sweaters could not.
 
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I thought that was a fantastic finale.
First the big thing, I loved the reveal of Ruby's mom. Honestly, big out there theories being true would have probably ended up feeling like to much small universe syndrome, which is something the show is already does a lot. So I like the idea that the only reason she was important, was because of who she was to Ruby, and not who she was.
The Doctor bringing everyone back to life by using Death to kill death was fun idea.
We got really fantastic performances from all of the major cast members.
Turns out they actually brought the original voice actor for Suhtek from Pyriamids of Mars. And he was also the voice of The Beast in The Impossible & The Satan Pit.
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They pulled a Last Jedi on Ruby's parents
I said that several pages ago! :p

I suspect that was just misdirection to cover the fact that this was actually a sequel to Pyramids of Mars.
Not only that, but it was never announced Sean Pertwee was involved. Merely rumored. Maybe the production put that rumor out there (probably not) but either way, we had no real expectation of him appearing.

The Doctor defeating Sutekh with a bungee cord was, as with every other element of the episode, at once fantastic and awful.
Honestly, I mostly loved that. It's a nice callback to how The Tenth Doctor could save the day with just a bit of string (or however that line went).

Ruby surprising her real mum and then everyone becoming best buds, and then them calling her real dad out of the blue feels really tone deaf by RTD (but does feed into his need to give characters what he thinks they need no matter how unrealistic- see Rose getting her dad and her Doctor, sort of).
(emphasis mine)

Yeah, that really bugged me, too.

The whole point of this series (and the show at large) is the importance of found family. While it was clear that Ruby wanted to find out why her mom specifically abandoned her (a real and understandable desire), she never once wondered about her father. Plus, add the whole "he doesn't even know I exist" bit, which just makes it all the more awkward.

(though her playing on the tablet while everyone else, even Lenny, were blazing away at Sutekh was just hilarious)
That moment was hilarious. The idea was intended for her to be analyzing the situation in order to help out, but it was still funny to see play out in the background.

I've genuinely been impressed with Bonnie Langford's acting. I wasn't one who hated Mel originally back in the 80s, but we really had no sense of her acting chops back then. She's been quite solid! :techman:
I've always been a defender of Mel (and not just because we share the same name). Mel as a character is wonderfully utilized in her introductory story, Terror of the Vervoids, but after that, the writers didn't ever seem know how to use her beyond a scream queen (which is a damn shame). Big Finish greatly redeemed the character (much like The Sixth Doctor and Adric) and finally provided the material Bonnie has long deserved. I'm thrilled the show has done the same at last, too.
 
Emotional manipulation of the cheap kind everywhere, and a spot of dead baby stuff. Joy.
Scene/plot resolutions that make no sense even one moment to the next.
A 13 year old kid not only works at Unit, but has machine guns in his scooter.
Gobbledegook dialogue that doesn’t even make sense while it is being spoken (which is standard for RTD, but here it’s expected to be an explanation)
More endings than Return of the King.
Star Trek Into Darkness levels of ‘here’s a scene they did better before’. And some added calls to nostalgia.
Resolution to threat that is silly, makes almost no sense (and involves the Tardis towing something…)
Music so busy telling me what to feel I had to rewind to hear stuff.
A new record for ‘how many times can the Doctor cry in an episode’ (three times at least, though they edited one bit out but left the tear streak in place by looks of it)
That’s not what the inside of a CRT looks like (nor would it need to be one for VHS)
RTD lies (looks like Ruby is gone…)
Does Rose Not Tyler even get a line?
Why did The Doctor and Ruby change costumes for 2046? (Good year choice. The film was better though)
“Cultural appropriation” throwing shade on old Who? Or are we talking about Egypt/Osiris?
Whole planets dying at different times?
Stars dying now?
Things happening for sake of convenience.
Robots grow their head back.
At least he undid the token death of last week.
Maybe show the baby and her mother coming back though?
Season long arc resolved in a way that makes no sense at all.
People behaving without any sense of realism, even by Who standards.
Doctor having Thirteen levels of being an arse to someone (yeah, there’s your mum, don’t go talk to her though, she clearly couldn’t be arsed)
Poor old Ruby’s Dad, that’s gonna go well. (Was his name Billy Garret? That would be hilarious if you watch WhoTubers)
Sutekh has been hitching a ride for a few centuries on the Tardis, and no one noticed, not even when it blew up and was rebooted from a memory? Not when it was split in half? Not when she was split into humanoid body? Not throughout the whole Time War or whenever she was back on Gallifrey?
Susan Triad is a perfect trap for the Doctor? Why does he need to be trapped?
They put the big Dog on a leash, how funny. How naff.
I… don’t think Ncuti has the acting skills for the Doctorish stuff. It felt like he had just been handed his lines sometimes. Sorry.
*excited technobabble, flick switches mania* haven’t we done this before Rusty?
Oh, and of course Rubies origins are in implied abuse. Why wouldn’t they be?
Not only should Dimensions In Time be canon, all of Eastenders should be in there. Fits right in.
Only eight episodes, and I am meant to care about *any* of these people? Millie’s the only regular who has had anything to do, and has acted well. Even then I am not exactly buying the super special ‘changed me’ stuff.
And of course she loves the Doctor. Of course. (Haven’t we done that before too?)
Shame the Doctor didn’t think to get himself a better costume from the Memory Tardis.



Still, it’s taken nearly forty years, but Mel was finally relevant to a plot. Still didn’t let her do any of the computer stuff (she could have designed the security, rather than the Doctor implying he did…)
And Mrs.Flood was so written as River Song. Which will likely be more flim flam.
At this point Carole Anne Ford really should be in the Christmas special, which is at least a Moffat episode so may not be entirely a mess.

It was worse than I expected. And that’s saying something.
get over yourself. Stop watching and commenting if you have such an absolute hatred for the show
 
I've always been a defender of Mel (and not just because we share the same name). Mel as a character is wonderfully utilized in her introductory story, Terror of the Vervoids, but after that, the writers didn't ever seem know how to use her beyond a scream queen (which is a damn shame). Big Finish greatly redeemed the character (much like The Sixth Doctor and Adric) and finally provided the material Bonnie has long deserved. I'm thrilled the show has done the same at last, too.
I actually particularly like Terror of the Vervoids. I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that's an unusual view. But it's got a great story, Mel is excellent, and it's only letdown by a particularly low budget look (but that's a non-issue for me). I don't listen Big Finish so wasn't aware of her material there, but great to hear that it's been good.
 
The dad's name "Garnet".

A Garnet is a reddish brown gemstone.
Ruby's step-grandad? The reference also reminded me of Alf Garnett. RTD likes us to see correlations and synchronicities where there are none. It's kind of his warning against magical thinking and companions with added "specialness" - /*cough*/Clara/*cough*/. What about the snow then?
 
Ruby's step-grandad? The reference also reminded me of Alf Garnett. RTD likes us to see correlations and synchronicities where there are none. It's kind of his warning against magical thinking and companions with added "specialness" - /*cough*/Clara/*cough*/. What about the snow then?
What about the ton of magical things that happened?! Seems like RTD is amping up magical thinking in the series.
 
Ruby's step-grandad? The reference also reminded me of Alf Garnett. RTD likes us to see correlations and synchronicities where there are none. It's kind of his warning against magical thinking and companions with added "specialness" - /*cough*/Clara/*cough*/. What about the snow then?

"William Benjamin Garnet" is Ruby's biological father.

My first thought was "Bill and Ben the flowerpot men"
 
Was it ever explained why Ruby has a Manchester accent? How long was she in that area before she was fostered in London? That seems a heck of a distance for social services to relocate a child.

The episode made little sense, but then that's nothing new. The main thing I ask is that it entertains and isn't egregiously bad like The Flux. This one seemed mostly like an MCU infinity Saga knock-off with the solution being a nod to Alien.

This has been bugging me a lot too.
But, can only assume the song inside her was Wonderwall. On loop.
 
So, is Mrs Flood really the Rani/Rain or is RTD taking the piss again? I don't think she's Melody Pond as she has a cruel streak. Flood is s very fond of monologuing, which I don't recall being a trait of the Rani.
 
IIRC, Ruby was brought up in Manchester by Carla and only later moved to London to help look after Cherry.
DAVINA: So life's been good, would you say?
RUBY: Yeah. Not bad. I mean, we've had a mad time with it, haven't we? And my A-levels were not the best, cos we had to leave Manchester to move down here, cos we came and looked after my gran and we couldn't afford care and she would never move to the north, not in a million years. So, yeah, that's been tricky and expensive.
DAVINA: No one would move to London.

It's right at the start of Ruby's story.
 
IIRC, Ruby was brought up in Manchester by Carla and only later moved to London to help look after Cherry.

DAVINA: So life's been good, would you say?
RUBY: Yeah. Not bad. I mean, we've had a mad time with it, haven't we? And my A-levels were not the best, cos we had to leave Manchester to move down here, cos we came and looked after my gran and we couldn't afford care and she would never move to the north, not in a million years. So, yeah, that's been tricky and expensive.
DAVINA: No one would move to London.

It's right at the start of Ruby's story.

I had assumed. I didn’t watch the Xmas one, and still won’t.
It still bugs me a little, because I kept feeling like the house was being portrayed as the one she grew up in, so am glad there was an explanation.
They must be loaded, or have serious contacts — or that’s Cherry’s house and no wonder she’s grumpy being poked up into the attic.
 
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