Spoilers Empire of Death grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Empire of Death?


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The Nightmare Doctor

Scarecrow Master
Premium Member
Empire of Death.jpg
The Doctor has lost, his ageless enemy reigns supreme, and a shadow is falling over creation. Nothing can stop the devastation... except, perhaps, one woman.



I hate to say it...but it sounds like it's time for the Doctor Ruby (not the exact same conceit but something similar). I really, really, really hope I'm wrong on that count.

Unless it's...

On iPlayer, Sian Clifford (Fleabag) is listed as "Kind Woman." Clearly a case of hiding an identity, presumably both Ruby's mother and the figure seen in the above image. Perhaps she's the "one woman."

Edit: Come to think of it, if Sian Clifford is actually Ruby's mother, then that dashes my "Mrs. Flood" is Ruby's mother theory! Which then begs the question, who the hell is Mrs. Flood?! The Rani, no doubt. No, wait! Susan! ;)

But probably not. Despite whatever role that person plays in the episode, Ruby is more likely the hero that saves the day, just like Rose, Martha, and Donna before her.

Edit: Actually, now I wonder if Ruby is the cloaked figure here, doing her best "end of the world wandering" Martha Jones impression.
 
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If a picture could sum up this season finale


r9aQh3v.gif
 
So much wrong in this. But not finished watching — just thought I’d say Mrs.Flood is clearly River Song.
Don’t ask how, no idea.
But *all* her dialogue is written in that style.
(Edit: which is probably just more red herring bollocks anyway.so she isn’t.)
 
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I really enjoyed this episode. I went into thinking that Mrs Flood was Susan, maybe she could be the original Susan. By the end of the episode I was thinking maybe The Master but after reading the post above I quite like the idea she is River Song. Hopefully we will find, in the Christmas special, or maybe next season.
 
That wasn't really all that good, to be honest. Right away, you could tell the episode would get a reset button by the end with everyone at the UNIT Command Centre, among them Kate and Rose getting killed. After that, everything just felt padded and drawn out until Sutekh's inevitable defeat and the consequent restoration of everyone back to life. And we even tied 73 Yards into things.

The revelation of Ruby's mother felt rather anticlimactic. I mean, yes, I get what they were going for, and I even like the idea in principle that her mother is just an ordinary person who became sort of mythologized because of the mystery surrounding her. Still, after that much build-up just to reveal Ruby's mother is just a completely ordinary person just fell a bit flat for me, IMO.

Overall this has been one hell of a season, with most of the episodes being either tier one or at least tier two entertainment. But damn, this two-part finale wasn't really that great an addition or really a particularly fitting ending.
 
Emotional manipulation of the cheap kind everywhere, and a spot of dead baby stuff. Joy.
Scene/plot resolutions that make no sense even one moment to the next.
A 13 year old kid not only works at Unit, but has machine guns in his scooter.
Gobbledegook dialogue that doesn’t even make sense while it is being spoken (which is standard for RTD, but here it’s expected to be an explanation)
More endings than Return of the King.
Star Trek Into Darkness levels of ‘here’s a scene they did better before’. And some added calls to nostalgia.
Resolution to threat that is silly, makes almost no sense (and involves the Tardis towing something…)
Music so busy telling me what to feel I had to rewind to hear stuff.
A new record for ‘how many times can the Doctor cry in an episode’ (three times at least, though they edited one bit out but left the tear streak in place by looks of it)
That’s not what the inside of a CRT looks like (nor would it need to be one for VHS)
RTD lies (looks like Ruby is gone…)
Does Rose Not Tyler even get a line?
Why did The Doctor and Ruby change costumes for 2046? (Good year choice. The film was better though)
“Cultural appropriation” throwing shade on old Who? Or are we talking about Egypt/Osiris?
Whole planets dying at different times?
Stars dying now?
Things happening for sake of convenience.
Robots grow their head back.
At least he undid the token death of last week.
Maybe show the baby and her mother coming back though?
Season long arc resolved in a way that makes no sense at all.
People behaving without any sense of realism, even by Who standards.
Doctor having Thirteen levels of being an arse to someone (yeah, there’s your mum, don’t go talk to her though, she clearly couldn’t be arsed)
Poor old Ruby’s Dad, that’s gonna go well. (Was his name Billy Garret? That would be hilarious if you watch WhoTubers)
Sutekh has been hitching a ride for a few centuries on the Tardis, and no one noticed, not even when it blew up and was rebooted from a memory? Not when it was split in half? Not when she was split into humanoid body? Not throughout the whole Time War or whenever she was back on Gallifrey?
Susan Triad is a perfect trap for the Doctor? Why does he need to be trapped?
They put the big Dog on a leash, how funny. How naff.
I… don’t think Ncuti has the acting skills for the Doctorish stuff. It felt like he had just been handed his lines sometimes. Sorry.
*excited technobabble, flick switches mania* haven’t we done this before Rusty?
Oh, and of course Rubies origins are in implied abuse. Why wouldn’t they be?
Not only should Dimensions In Time be canon, all of Eastenders should be in there. Fits right in.
Only eight episodes, and I am meant to care about *any* of these people? Millie’s the only regular who has had anything to do, and has acted well. Even then I am not exactly buying the super special ‘changed me’ stuff.
And of course she loves the Doctor. Of course. (Haven’t we done that before too?)
Shame the Doctor didn’t think to get himself a better costume from the Memory Tardis.



Still, it’s taken nearly forty years, but Mel was finally relevant to a plot. Still didn’t let her do any of the computer stuff (she could have designed the security, rather than the Doctor implying he did…)
And Mrs.Flood was so written as River Song. Which will likely be more flim flam.
At this point Carole Anne Ford really should be in the Christmas special, which is at least a Moffat episode so may not be entirely a mess.

It was worse than I expected. And that’s saying something.
 
That wasn't really all that good, to be honest. Right away, you could tell the episode would get a reset button by the end with everyone at the UNIT Command Centre, among them Kate and Rose getting killed. After that, everything just felt padded and drawn out until Sutekh's inevitable defeat and the consequent restoration of everyone back to life. And we even tied 73 Yards into things.

The revelation of Ruby's mother felt rather anticlimactic. I mean, yes, I get what they were going for, and I even like the idea in principle that her mother is just an ordinary person who became sort of mythologized because of the mystery surrounding her. Still, after that much build-up just to reveal Ruby's mother is just a completely ordinary person just fell a bit flat for me, IMO.

Overall this has been one hell of a season, with most of the episodes being either tier one or at least tier two entertainment. But damn, this two-part finale wasn't really that great an addition or really a particularly fitting ending.
It was an uneven end to an uneven season. Plus, I'm bored with everything having to be universe-ending consequences.
 
I also agree that it was overwrought. It overshot by killing off all the main characters immediately, so it had to be some sort of reset button (also, not sure how I feel about the kid's segway having a built-in machine gun, and I definately don't think he should've been firing it from right behind one of the soldiers. Bad blocking). I thought the "ordinary person is the most important person" was about as well-done as RTD has ever hit the theme, with the added message that things become important because we make them important, though the part about her pointing at the street sign and that somehow connecting to Ruby being named Ruby was... wacky. The Doctor also seemed a bit too broken up about killing Sutekh (he's done the same thing to people he's liked better), especially since he'd already done it, in that exact way, once before.

I feel like there's a shoe yet to drop with the 73 yards thing, because it just raised further questions by revealing that's the range of the TARDIS Somebody Else's Problem field and that outside of Ruby's bubble universe, the Doctor had a front-row seat to Mad Jack's fall (maybe he is the Minister of War, after all).

I don't know why everyone is saying Mrs. Flood is River. She's probably Clara. She was wearing a similar outfit to the one Clara died in, she called the Doctor "clever boy" after he double-negatived death, and Moffat is writing the next episode, and I'm guessing it's not just because he's better at Christmas. Though, Flood's closing narration, about "that mysterious traveller in time and space known as the Doctor" is almost word-for-word how Missy introduced herself playing the Doctor in "World Enough and Time," and that her reaction to impending death was to find the nearest religious person and tell her to let the man upstairs know that dying just means she's going to become God's problem is very Master-ish.

And the Master is still up in the air, last seen in a gold tooth after dying under indeterminant circumstances that may or may not have been when we last saw him, and Clara did have a... complex... relationship with Missy, which may not have been helped by the fact that the Master may have screwed Clara, and all of reality, if he destroyed Gallifrey before she had the chance to come back and get returned to her death.

So, laying down my markers for six months from now, from most to least confident, I'm going to say, the Master/Missy, then Clara, with a chaser that "the World" which joy is being brought to is not Earth, with a longshot bet that it's Gallifrey.
 
Thanks to the BBFCs rating for the episode talking about teenage pregnancy and domestic violence, I knew none of the theories about Ruby's mother were right, so that wasn't a shock.

And Mrs Flood is clearly one of the gods, presumably the god of stories or something similar, which is why she can break the fourth wall and talk to us.
 
It makes sense that the landing wouldn't live up to our expectations. It could never.

Master as a women birthed Ruby!

Rani cloned herself!

Dalek human hybrid with the knowledge of all reality and the ability to cook a turkey perfectly


To have Ruby's mom end up being "Rey Skywalkered" was the best way to get out of this mess.


And Mrs Flood is clearly one of the gods, presumably the god of stories or something similar, which is why she can break the fourth wall and talk to us.


I think she's a timelord who's reporting her stories to someone. Maybe a "Time Narrator"

"The Narrator"
 
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