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Spoilers The Legend of Ruby Sunday grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Legend of Ruby Sunday?

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    48
Theory - could Susan Triad NOT be a fake-out and is actually a manifestation of the TARDIS, trying to get help? Some of her "forms" are suggestive - people you ask for help or support... ambulance, mother, tealady (OK the last one is a stretch). Even the hiker Ruby encountered she asked for help and she was wearing blue...

Now this does mean Sutekh has just possessed the "main" Triad, but if they are essentially constructs the TARDIS is using that could be possible.
 
I decided to rewatch Pyramids of Mars today (mostly because I won't have time to watch the Tales of the TARDIS version prior to "Empire of Death") and several things grabbed my attention.

At the beginning of the story, The Doctor muses that "It's about time I stopped running around after the Brigadier." I lamented in my review for "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" that it's a shame Lis Sladen is no longer with us to be part of the Sutekh reunion, but at least Lethbridge-Stewart has a connection between both. UNIT, too, since the Scarman estate burned down by the end of the serial and eventually became the location of UNIT headquarters (a detail I had forgotten until my rewatch).

After rewatching the serial, I went back and revisited the climax for this episode and noticed that possessed Susan Twist refers to mankind as insects, just as he did in Pyramids. Hopefully we'll get more little touches and callbacks like that in "Empire of Death."

As much as I love Harriet's speech about all of the gods being children of Sutekh, it is curious to make that connection considering Sutekh's main goal upon his release in Pyramids is to destroy all intelligent life (out of fear that they would rival him in power, as postulated by The Doctor). With that in mind, why is the god of death the father and mother and other of all of these great and powerful beings that could potentially rival him?

I hope that's something addressed and not just Davies trying to make grand sweeping connections with past Doctor Who, but I fear that might just be the case. Again, I find myself thinking of Fenric and feel like he would be better suited for such a role and not Sutekh, but Big Finish already did that (which is probably why that's not happening here).
 
When Mrs Flood said a storm is coming does she mean the Oncoming Storm?

Probably not.

I'm probably wrong but I don't think she will turn out to be a villain.
 
Ar-Pharazon said:
I know it's a "small universe" stretch, but any chance Corporal Alice Sullivan is related to Harry?
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Maybe if she was a medic of some sort, I would think that. Sullivan is a pretty common name.

Pindar said:
When Mrs Flood said a storm is coming does she mean the Oncoming Storm?

Probably not.

I'm probably wrong but I don't think she will turn out to be a villain.
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I'm still betting on her to be Ruby's natural born mother.
 
That last part would not be a surprise, but that would leave the question of what/who she is.
Ar-Pharazon said:
Someone edited in extra classic scenes and added some speculative character matches to the names.
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I didn't realize those were all references to bad guys from earlier seasons of the new and old series.
 
Yup, like I said, most of them are stretch, although the connections to the Beast and the Gods of Ragnarok make sense. I very much doubt we'll get any kind of follow up. Davies is notorious for making imaginative lists such as this, particularly when talking about the Time War. The one I always remember is the Nightmare Child.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
I decided to rewatch Pyramids of Mars today (mostly because I won't have time to watch the Tales of the TARDIS version prior to "Empire of Death") and several things grabbed my attention.

At the beginning of the story, The Doctor muses that "It's about time I stopped running around after the Brigadier." I lamented in my review for "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" that it's a shame Lis Sladen is no longer with us to be part of the Sutekh reunion, but at least Lethbridge-Stewart has a connection between both. UNIT, too, since the Scarman estate burned down by the end of the serial and eventually became the location of UNIT headquarters (a detail I had forgotten until my rewatch).

After rewatching the serial, I went back and revisited the climax for this episode and noticed that possessed Susan Twist refers to mankind as insects, just as he did in Pyramids. Hopefully we'll get more little touches and callbacks like that in "Empire of Death."

As much as I love Harriet's speech about all of the gods being children of Sutekh, it is curious to make that connection considering Sutekh's main goal upon his release in Pyramids is to destroy all intelligent life (out of fear that they would rival him in power, as postulated by The Doctor). With that in mind, why is the god of death the father and mother and other of all of these great and powerful beings that could potentially rival him?

I hope that's something addressed and not just Davies trying to make grand sweeping connections with past Doctor Who, but I fear that might just be the case. Again, I find myself thinking of Fenric and feel like he would be better suited for such a role and not Sutekh, but Big Finish already did that (which is probably why that's not happening here).
Click to expand...

It Sutekh Lying?

He's not ready to destroy the universe, until he's assembled and motivated the only people who can stop him, to stop him, lo it takes months of maybe 90 years, since he faked his death.
 
Rich Watson said:
This is funny. As per the new DWM the 1940s Roswell scene, the very first thing Russell mentioned in relation to the series, was cut. It was part of the original opening of this episode which would have featured several more Susan Twist encounters finally prompting the Doctor's decision to ask UNIT for help.
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Ahhh...that makes sense. I'm disappointed we didn't get that sequence but hopefully it'll be released on YouTube at some point.
 
I hope we get to see a glimpse of that photograph of Alistair on Kate's desk in a future episode.

...also, this video reminds me that Ruth Madeley's Shirley Bingham was conspicuously absent from UNIT headquarters. I imagine that was more a real-life funding and/or scheduling issue than a plot detail. I adore Shirley and I want to see more of her (I can't remember if she's confirmed for next season or not).

Speaking of absent UNIT advisors, did we ever get an onscreen explanation for Osgood's whereabouts? I know she stays plenty busy in the Big Finish audio plays, but I can't remember if there have been any references to her in the show since the Zygon two-parter.
 
I went back and watched on YouTube the clip of the Toymaker and Doctor cutting cards in regards to the line, "The one who waits"; and, as I scrolled through the comments, I was surprised that a number of people correctly guessed it was Sutekh who would be the Big Bad this season based on that line alone.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
...also, this video reminds me that Ruth Madeley's Shirley Bingham was conspicuously absent from UNIT headquarters. I imagine that was more a real-life funding and/or scheduling issue than a plot detail.
Click to expand...
She was shooting "Renegade Nell". It was her in the scripts but they changed it to Lenny Rush, who was originally going to just be a voice actor in "Space Babies".

You would not go broke betting that she will be back in S2.

And officially Shirley and Donna are in Geneva during the episode, a nod to that being the excuse whenever the Brig didn't show up.

Where 14 is, remains a mystery.
 
And therein lies the ongoing problem re 14.

And yes, I get that there's always the possibility that AN Other Doctor could be on Earth in time of crisis, and for all we know 14 is off visiting the 14th Century, but are we always just supposed to assume that?

The further we get away from the bi-generation the stupider the idea seems (and it seemed pretty stupid at the time).

Oh well, Russell wouldn't be Russell if he didn't go too far sometimes, and on the whole I've been happy with the vast majority of the choices he's made since he returned as showrunner.

I do hope Shirley returns, but given I love Ruth Madeley and Lenny Rush I'm kinda hoping we can see them team up at some stage.
 
Until something is said on screen to contradict it I'm going with the idea that if something happened to 14 before his natural death*, 15 blinks out of existence, causing all sorts of paradoxes. So as much as he wants to help he has to stay far away.



*At which point his soul/spirit/whatever travels back in time to pop out of himsrlf as 15.
 
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