'The Cannon' for me - with its branded carpets!
Although the Classic Fryer near opposite to it is still going strong!
Did Star Wars really start as episode 4?
- Thread starter Morpheus 02
- Start date
Although the Classic Fryer near opposite to it is still going strong!
The "Classic" is where I saw Star Wars the first nine or ten times at the cinema ! The rest were triple bills or rereleases !'The Cannon' for me - with its branded carpets!
Superb. I saw Empire and Jedi there - I think they had the small cafe back then? The 97 SEs too, and stuff like the midnight show of Rogue One.
I am envious of you seeing the triple bill there. Very cool. Think I remember a schoolfriend going and being given a small version of the triple bill poster or something similar?
Always have a soft spot for the place and try to go whenever there is a decent film out (still quite cheap too, even after the reprofiled it and gave us comfy seats and more legroom!)
Or else nothing... My post is merely highlighting many of the previous releases were far from showcasing the films in their best light, so why not issue a release, such as for the 50th anniversary, in the best possible quality, with the love and care the films deserve. Doesn't sound too unreasonable, no?
That if fan preservations can surpass previous official releases, then surely Lucasfilm, with their vast array of sources and resources, experience and knowledge, can issue a far better quality release than they have previously, yes?
That's cool for you and any others who feel similar. Nice one. So the problem for other people wanting such a release in high quality and on a modern digital format is?
Or highlighting that some of the 'reasons' given by George/Lucasfilm as to why there wasn't such a release previously ranged from being disingenuous to utter bullshit - despite many of these 'reasons' becoming accepted and then mistakenly repeated as some sort of 'truth' or fact.
A best-quality release on a modern digital format for the various cuts of the Star Wars films for the 50th anniversary? Yeah, seems reasonable. It'd also something cool for that 50th too, for anyone interested.
Maybe.
It's their property. To do with as they will.
I would be curious, very much so, if it makes them any money whatsoever. No, I don't think the fan efforts demonstrate anything of a willingness to actually spend money. I think there is a clamor and when it is released there will be silence.
I would love to be proven wrong. Would love it. But, the answer is there is no obligation by LFL to release these films in these formats, and it might go against what Lucas preferred, which has been indicated by others at the company as consideration in their releases.
So, it might be "utter bullshit" but it's their bullshit to shovel.
It doesn't deserve anything. It is an inanimate object.
I agree, it is also something I didn't claim.it did (in that context). The fan preservations do however indicate a demand for the theatrical releases over many years, as well as the recent '40th' anniversary theatrical showings of the OT and '25th' TPM (people spending money to see the films at the big screen - apparently the screenings did quite well). That recent physical media releases of Star Wars (even the eye watering priced steelbooks) have also sold well and indicate a market there... and the OT has traditionally sold well whenever there has been a physical media release. As well as the previously mentioned acknowledgment from Lucasfilm for that 'overwhelming' demand for the OOT (albeit some time ago, yet unlikely that interest has declined over the years, if anything an argument could be made for that increasing - especially as more differing cuts since have been released, and that the 1997 SE cuts have never had a HD release, which for many people may have been the cut they grew up with and want to experience again. Or even fans curious as to how the films have evolved oved the years, or sitting down with friends and family to experience versions they haven't previously seen before / for a long time).
Put it this way, it would certainly be newsworthy if there was such a release for the 50th anniversary... and it didn't sell well
Were you in charge of quality control at Lucasfilm from 1997 to 2020?
Wake me when it happens. Until then, firmly in the skeptical department. Call it retailer's cynicism.Put it this way, it would certainly be newsworthy if there was such a release for the 50th anniversary... and it didn't sell well
Yes. It was actually my first job out of Middle School.Were you in charge of quality control at Lucasfilm from 1997 to 2020?
My, it's a small world !
Mrs Relayer and I have taken to sneaking into the pensioner specials on an afternoon (we're 'only' 61). It's 6 or 7 quid with a cup of coffee thrown in !
Edit - saw the triple bill at the old Odeon Smallbrook Queensway in Brum too. Sadly gone now.
I love they put on the 'classics' for the afternoon showings. English Patient is on tomorrow, I think. Enjoy those Specials!My, it's a small world !
Mrs Relayer and I have taken to sneaking into the pensioner specials on an afternoon (we're 'only' 61). It's 6 or 7 quid with a cup of coffee thrown in !
Edit - saw the triple bill at the old Odeon Smallbrook Queensway in Brum too. Sadly gone now.
A pity about Odeon Queensway, it was left empty for so many years I always hoped someone would take it on and still be a cinema. Although I haven't been past there for a couple of years.
I would have less objection to the SEs if some of the changes weren't so tasteless:
And then there's the changes that alter the story – Han shooting second, adding in the cut Jabba scene, the various dialog additions and changes, etc.
If the SEs had stuck to tasteful cleanup and additions such as set extensions, I think they'd be much less controversial than they are.
And then there's the changes that alter the story – Han shooting second, adding in the cut Jabba scene, the various dialog additions and changes, etc.
If the SEs had stuck to tasteful cleanup and additions such as set extensions, I think they'd be much less controversial than they are.
I really have to question if there's really enough demand to make a physical release of the original version of The Original Trilogy worth it. I have a feeling the only people who really care about it this point are the hardest of the hard core fans and the older fans who grew up with them, and I question if there's enough of them to make it worth the time, money, and work it would take to a true full remaster.
Yes, studios have gone done that kind of thing before for things like the Star Treks, but usually it's the first time they've ever been released at that quality or format in any form. The OT has already been released multiple times in pretty much every quality and format you can imagine, and I can't imagine the casual fans are going to really care that much about another one, and they're going to need a lot of them to make it worth it.
Yes, studios have gone done that kind of thing before for things like the Star Treks, but usually it's the first time they've ever been released at that quality or format in any form. The OT has already been released multiple times in pretty much every quality and format you can imagine, and I can't imagine the casual fans are going to really care that much about another one, and they're going to need a lot of them to make it worth it.
The 1997 Special Editions have never had a HD release on any format. This despite the there being fantastic quality negative struck for them, and high quality backups made, along with the current 2019 'Maclunkey' Special Edition being based off them. There'd be little to no effort at all in finally releasing the '97 cuts in HD, or in 4K/UHD on a modern digital format (a deluxe physical media boxset or on Disney+ etc).
I'm not really a fan of the '97 cuts, but recognise that for many people growing up these are the cuts they saw on the big screen for the first time, or were the versions they remember, or grew up with. They do also have a unique place in Star Wars history too. Kind of baffling they've always been 'ready to go' for such a release...
Similar for the 2004 SE release on DVD - for people who grew up with that version, to have it available in HD (as available in that quality - yet not released), would be cool for them, and kind of an interest for anyone interested in the seeing the various cuts and how they evolved over time.
Re the OOT... well, the as posted previously in the thread the demand is there - Lucasfilm acknowledged such an overwhelming demand, the previous flawed (and frankly intentionally awful laserdisc port) sold well for 5 years (still being pressed and sold despite the initial 4 month 'Limited Edition' window, only stopping for the 2011 blu ray release). With the amount of interest in fan preservations of the OOT - and various other cuts - including theatrical PT cuts - having been strong, and continues to be strong even some 20 years later after the first collective fan preservations started, and Lucasfilm is aware of that, and that demand.
Also, the 40th anniversary OT theatrical showings did very well (despite limited publicity, and the films not being the actual 40th cuts; we got the 2011/2019 cuts depending where you lived for Empire, and the 2019 cuts for Jedi (so really it was the 4th anniversary
) Still, the OT on the big screen did bring in the crowds and cash. The same for the 25th of TPM (despite it not actually being the actual 25th cut?).Plus, as George himself put it... (those tapes and DVDs are not going to last forever; especially given the recent reports of disc rot and playback issues for the 2006 DVD release)
^ so why not have a 'best image and sound quality possible' release on a modern digital format of the theatrical and various SE cuts of the films, to give people the choice and option to watch and experience whichever version they wish to see that was previously released to the public.
After all, in 1995... (thanks to Set Hearth for correcting my mistake in originally posting the wrong image)
As Lucasfilm's Pablo Hidalgo said back in 2017, there is only one thing (person) keeping from there being such a release...
which kind of circles back nicely to my first post (#15) in here...
I'll leave it there - I think I've bored everyone enough in here - though hopefully have also given some information which corrects some of the wild and incorrect reasons often espoused (understandable given Lucas/Lucasfilm's penchant for being disingenuous with the truth on the subject) as to why there there supposed won't / can't be a such a release of the OOT. When there certainly can be such a release, given the demand... for not that much effort, and not that costly...
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How do we know how much it will cost?
I would love to know how people have this insider information to budget this all out for LFL?
Of course there can be a release, but as Pablo notes there is one person's wishes who limit it. So I will not hold my breath, either for LFL to release it (for whatever BS reason, amiright?) or that people will spend money on it. People say a lot of things.
But are the different edits since the special editions really different enough to be worth releasing separately? I was under most of the edits were fairly minor, like adding blinking eyelids to Ewoks or changing one or two bits of alien dialogue.
Yes, some people are very loud about wanting to see it and a couple of special releases have done OK, but I still question if they'd really if it would be able to get the kind of numbers they'd need to make the kind of thing you're talking about worth it. It's going to be hard to justify the amount of time, and money it would take to get it done unless it would be a huge success, and I really don't know if it would be that. There are plenty of examples of fans begging for something and then when it finally happens, it's a flop. You need a lot more than just fans to make something like this a success, and I don't know if the average person is really that interested in this.Re the OOT... well, the as posted previously in the thread the demand is there - Lucasfilm acknowledge such a demand, the previous flawed (and frankly intentionally awful laserdisc port) sold well for 5 years (still being pressed and sold despite the initial 4 month 'Limited Edition' window, only stopping for the 2011 blu ray release). With the interest in fan preservations of the OOT - and various other cuts - including theatrical PT cuts - having been strong, and continues to be strong even some 20 years later after the first collective fan preservations started, and Lucasfilm is aware of that, and that demand.
Also, the 40th anniversary OT theatrical showings did very well (despite limited publicity, and the films not being the actual 40th cuts; we got the 2011/2019 cuts depending where you lived for Empire, and the 2019 cuts for Jedi (so really it was the 4th anniversary
Plus, as George himself put it... (those tapes and DVDs are not going to last forever; especially given the recent reports of disc rot and playback issues for the 2006 DVD release)
^ so why not have a 'best image and sound quality possible' release on a modern digital format of the theatrical and various SE cuts of the films, to give people the choice and option to watch and experience whichever version they wish to see that was previously released to the public.
After all, in 1995...
As Lucasfilm's Pablo Hidalgo said back in 2017, there is only one thing (person) keeping from there being such a release...
which kind of circles back nicely to my first post (#15) in here...
I'll leave it there - I think I've bored everyone enough in here - though hopefully have also given some information which corrects some of the wild and incorrect reasons often espoused (understandable given Lucas/Lucasfilm's penchant for being disingenuous with the truth on the subject) as to why there there supposed won't / can't be a such a release of the OOT. When there certainly can be such a release, given the demand... for not that much effort, and not that costly...
What is this supposed to be? There were no DVDs in 1995.
Apologies - I mistakenly posted that from a fan-made dvd cover (for a DVD preservation project for the 1995 VHS sets). I should have used an actual image of the 1995 VHS set:-
Information was provided on that in this post - as well as the links on the various options for preserving the films:-
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/did-star-wars-really-start-as-episode-4.316906/page-2#post-14841102
(I guess people in the film industry, in film preservation, and those undertaking their own community-led fan preservation projects would know the ballpark cost of such ventures?)
Well, the 1997SE, 2004SE (in HD) , 2011SE, and 2019SE cuts are ready to go and require little to no work for such a release - whether that be on Disney+ (as part of the 'Vintage Collection'; sitting alongside other older/non-canon Star Wars material released over the years), - or a physical media release for... say the 50th anniversary of Star Wars in 2027?
Blade Runner has 5 differing versions of the film I think (maybe more?) - yet that has a such a release on blu ray (that sold very well and seemingly cherished by its fans), so it is not that such a release would be unprecedented or into unknown waters etc.
There is some more information on the alterations made to the Original Trilogy films over the years for the various Special Edition, here (to sound, music, story, characters, and also introducing mistakes):-
https://thedigitalbits.com/featured/articles/2144
https://digitalbits.com/featured/articles/2159
https://thedigitalbits.com/featured/articles/2160
and here: https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com (for the main 1997SE, 2004SE, 2011SE, and 2019SE releases - along with the official StarWars.com 'changes guides' for certain releases from that time).
These are also well worth a read, imho:-
https://www.wired.com/story/put-original-star-wars-on-disney-plus (full backup here: https://archive.is/OPb0c)
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2020/08/21/what-we-want/
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2021/02/27/the-lost-art-of-star-wars
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2019/11/26/list-of-academy-awards-for-the-original-trilogy/
If you'd prefer the changes in video format these were quite an insightful watch...
or these (they only cover the 1997SE to 2011SE alterations, being released before 2019)...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEch4j4KyoU - Star Wars (part 1)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFJuehq3o4 - Star Wars (part 2)
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4FG_MqVfmE - Empire Strikes Back
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hT_i05btHI - Return Of The Jedi
And as previously mentioned... this is quite a big alteration - and still uncorrected mistake...
^ "Never forget that the Death Star has been in clear site of Yavin IV from the beginning of the battle since 1997 and this is how the Special Edition should have ended."
^ from https://www.wired.com/story/put-original-star-wars-on-disney-plus (full backup here: https://archive.is/OPb0c)
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And as previously mentioned... this is quite a big alteration - and still uncorrected mistake...
^ "Never forget that the Death Star has been in clear site of Yavin IV from the beginning of the battle since 1997 and this is how the Special Edition should have ended."
you know how when you stand at the corner of a building you can see people on each side, and they can't see each other?
Ok. I'll never forget.
Bye-bye, Rebels.
Yup. That's my whole point. The certitude of it selling blows my mind. I lack it.
Lines of perspective. The vanishing point for the fighters looking back converges on Yavin IV, and looking forward converges on the Death Star. The Death Star, fighters, and Yavin are all along the same straight line. The moon and the Death Star should be closer to the edge of the planet to see them both at the same time while they can’t see each other.
You can buy a $25,000 working R2-D2 from either of the two immersive Star Wars theme parks. It doesn’t seem like a huge ask to think Star Wars might have the commercial viability of a cult film like Blade Runner.
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