Your postmortem thoughts on DISCO
- Thread starter Charles Phipps
- Start date
Well, while there are certainly entries that are stronger than others, and misses along with successes, this era of Trek has been positive because of how the business works. And I’d be careful saying “none is better than bad” because first, this is very much in the eye of the beholder, and second, it is waaaay easier for studios to invest in active properties than dormant ones. Exhibit A is another of my favorite franchises: Stargate.
There is no wish implied. A simple statement of observation.
Trek continued on after The Original Series cancelation. Perhaps it can again.
The time jump made it feel like a different show, one that wasn’t really fleshed out at all.
As Discovery went on, it became less what I wanted, and I often felt disappointed. And yet...
The show coming to an end has allowed me to appreciate Discovery for what it was in its own light, rather than the one I viewed it in from week to week.
And what I see is a series I love, problems and all.
I think history will be kind to Discovery in ways people don't anticipate. Those finales and reveals that left people saying, "...that's it?!" will be reinterpreted by many viewers not as underwhelming but as signs of the show's longstanding commitment to playing out stories in the weird and subtle vein of classic science-fiction: the universe torn asunder by a crying a child, an alien species (right out of Adolf Schaller's 'Life on a Gas Giant') wreaking havok through pure cultural ignorance, a bygone species revealing their godly powers to be but the gift of some unknown elder creator.
Maybe this crew saved the universe one time too many. But doing so allowed the show to tell stories that stretched the existential scope and beauty of Star Trek in new directions.
And I think the show will be remembered for its character work. At times inconsistent, Discovery nonetheless gave Michael Burnham the fullest and most nuanced character journey any Trek character has taken, and it surrounded her story with six other continuing character journeys and another handful of single-season arcs that nudged the show far closer to ensemble status than its critics often admit.
And despite its world-building sometimes being brief, what a range of glorious worlds Discovery gave viewers. Endless ancient libraries, stormy alien ruins, planets of carnivorous ice, glowing mycelial forests--watching this show has indeed been a feast of strange new worlds.
During the finale, as the wedding unfolded, I found myself becoming unexpectedly misty-eyed. In truth, the mistiness had begun as Burnham talked with the Progenitor. The sheer wonder and intimacy of it all touched me.
And when Burnham and Book talked on the beach, the entire run of the show was suddenly transcended: here was the show stripped back to its purest and simplest form, down to the bones of human interaction which underwrote the science fictional trappings: just two people finding each other on the shore of an alien ocean.
And I suddenly realized how much I wasn't ready for these characters to go.
I'm going to miss this show, miss Burnham, miss the journeys we will never get to see unfold. But I'll be back. I know I'll be rewatching this show, something I can't say for all of Trek's offerings. Discovery was one of the franchise's greatest and most ambitious experiments, stumbles and all. In a way, insidiously and delightful, Discovery made itself my Trek.
The show coming to an end has allowed me to appreciate Discovery for what it was in its own light, rather than the one I viewed it in from week to week.
And what I see is a series I love, problems and all.
I think history will be kind to Discovery in ways people don't anticipate. Those finales and reveals that left people saying, "...that's it?!" will be reinterpreted by many viewers not as underwhelming but as signs of the show's longstanding commitment to playing out stories in the weird and subtle vein of classic science-fiction: the universe torn asunder by a crying a child, an alien species (right out of Adolf Schaller's 'Life on a Gas Giant') wreaking havok through pure cultural ignorance, a bygone species revealing their godly powers to be but the gift of some unknown elder creator.
Maybe this crew saved the universe one time too many. But doing so allowed the show to tell stories that stretched the existential scope and beauty of Star Trek in new directions.
And I think the show will be remembered for its character work. At times inconsistent, Discovery nonetheless gave Michael Burnham the fullest and most nuanced character journey any Trek character has taken, and it surrounded her story with six other continuing character journeys and another handful of single-season arcs that nudged the show far closer to ensemble status than its critics often admit.
And despite its world-building sometimes being brief, what a range of glorious worlds Discovery gave viewers. Endless ancient libraries, stormy alien ruins, planets of carnivorous ice, glowing mycelial forests--watching this show has indeed been a feast of strange new worlds.
During the finale, as the wedding unfolded, I found myself becoming unexpectedly misty-eyed. In truth, the mistiness had begun as Burnham talked with the Progenitor. The sheer wonder and intimacy of it all touched me.
And when Burnham and Book talked on the beach, the entire run of the show was suddenly transcended: here was the show stripped back to its purest and simplest form, down to the bones of human interaction which underwrote the science fictional trappings: just two people finding each other on the shore of an alien ocean.
And I suddenly realized how much I wasn't ready for these characters to go.
I'm going to miss this show, miss Burnham, miss the journeys we will never get to see unfold. But I'll be back. I know I'll be rewatching this show, something I can't say for all of Trek's offerings. Discovery was one of the franchise's greatest and most ambitious experiments, stumbles and all. In a way, insidiously and delightful, Discovery made itself my Trek.
Midquest I hung on every word of this post. I feel exactly the same. Thank you
All this has happened before and will happen again.
As said elsewhere, Discovery started off trying to be Game of Thrones Trek and ended trying to be CW Trek. Behind the scenes turmoil on par with TNG season 1, seasons ended by different writers than began them, direction being changed over and over...
I definitely liked what it was trying to be in season one (something more adult) and then season two (TV series in the vein of the reboot movies) far more than what it became later. SMG's acting is maybe not on the level required to carry the show to the extent she did, but I feel she was hamstrung by producers and writers. After season 1 she wasn't allowed to convey emotion with a look anymore, it had to be a sentence. Then come seasons 3, 4 and 5 and everyone's emotions became a 5 minute monologue in the middle of a crisis. Michael Burnham was too busy being a role model to show any flaws like she did in season one, where she felt like a real and relatable human being. The season 3 negotiation between Vance and Ossyra was the last time the show impressed me with it's writing.
The show also suffered greatly for constantly cutting charismatic characters like Lorca (and holy shit did they butcher him, robbing him of at least 2 dimensions for his full-on villain run), Pike and Spock (for their spin-off) and Georgiou (for her spin-off which became a TV movie when she became very popular and expensive) and bringing in new characters with very little comparitive depth. And then reducing most of the remaining cast to the same paper-thin level of depth.
The LGBTQIA+ inclusion was great, but they did so little with those characters it was insane. Adira was Enby Wesley. Gray existed to say they're trans in passing and then leave the show. I'm guessing there's a story there but nobody's speaking up, yet. Paul Stamets stopped being a person and became an exposition machine. Hugh actually gained personality, so big win there.
Visually, it always looked amazing. The AR wall is a game changer for television, but even before that everything always looked great. Even the stylized season 1 visuals. Discovery was always way too big on the inside but it never actually mattered because it looked cool and ship sizes have zero impact on show quality. Likewise, sound and music were grand.
In summary, very messy but with a few golden moments.
I definitely liked what it was trying to be in season one (something more adult) and then season two (TV series in the vein of the reboot movies) far more than what it became later. SMG's acting is maybe not on the level required to carry the show to the extent she did, but I feel she was hamstrung by producers and writers. After season 1 she wasn't allowed to convey emotion with a look anymore, it had to be a sentence. Then come seasons 3, 4 and 5 and everyone's emotions became a 5 minute monologue in the middle of a crisis. Michael Burnham was too busy being a role model to show any flaws like she did in season one, where she felt like a real and relatable human being. The season 3 negotiation between Vance and Ossyra was the last time the show impressed me with it's writing.
The show also suffered greatly for constantly cutting charismatic characters like Lorca (and holy shit did they butcher him, robbing him of at least 2 dimensions for his full-on villain run), Pike and Spock (for their spin-off) and Georgiou (for her spin-off which became a TV movie when she became very popular and expensive) and bringing in new characters with very little comparitive depth. And then reducing most of the remaining cast to the same paper-thin level of depth.
The LGBTQIA+ inclusion was great, but they did so little with those characters it was insane. Adira was Enby Wesley. Gray existed to say they're trans in passing and then leave the show. I'm guessing there's a story there but nobody's speaking up, yet. Paul Stamets stopped being a person and became an exposition machine. Hugh actually gained personality, so big win there.
Visually, it always looked amazing. The AR wall is a game changer for television, but even before that everything always looked great. Even the stylized season 1 visuals. Discovery was always way too big on the inside but it never actually mattered because it looked cool and ship sizes have zero impact on show quality. Likewise, sound and music were grand.
In summary, very messy but with a few golden moments.
My big picture feelings: Flawed, sometimes glaringly so, but seldom bad. It's watchable in the moment in a way that a lot of VOY and ENT are not. It's just that it could have been so, so much more than it was.
Tonally, the series is all over the map. As I joked elsewhere, Discovery started as Edgelord Trek, and ended as Hallmark Channel Trek. I mean, in the first season, Michael Burnham is put through an unbelievable level of trauma, but by the fifth season, the writers seem so averse to being "mean" to the characters that we don't see a single death of a "good guy" onscreen - not even a random redshirt. A show that began with all of the characters being closed off, nasty, and distrustful of one another ended on themes of love, friendship, and connection.
Yet, the central flaw in the series - the thing which made me consistently disappointed in each season - is the lack of attention to character. When Discovery first was announced, I was stoked, because as a darker, serialized version of Star Trek, I thought we would get a spiritual successor to DS9 - a show which allowed for long-form character arcs - deep, multi-season explorations of the main cast, allowing for dynamic growth across the show (similar to say Nog's journey across seven seasons). Yet Discovery was always focused on the "big plot" arc of the season - or if not, the semi-episodic plot of the week. Characterization took a backseat, and as time went on, the writers seem to have run out of ideas on how to use characters like Stamets, Tilly, Adira - even Saru got almost nothing other than a multi-season romance with T'Rina. Worse still, each season was pretty much a self-contained story, meaning there was little feeling of a coherent show. Character developments in one season would be promptly dropped the next go-around - and sometimes reversed - at the fiat of the writers. It just felt like they began with these conceptual plot ideas, and then tried to shoehorn the characters around the edges. Especially by the fifth season, this was disappointing, as by that time, DS9 was writing entire episode plots just based upon the characters themselves! So I can't help but think about what could have been.
I don't know how to rank each season, but going through each in brief:
Season 1
Though the beginning of the season was a bit rough in places, I was genuinely engrossed. Michael had a great character arc, and by Into the Forest I Go had made great strides recovering from the beginning of the season. Then they just fapped around for too long in the Mirror Universe, which completely came off the rails near the end. Michael suffered three different traumas in short succession (Finding out her dead mentor's clone was Space Hitler, finding out her boyfriend was a Klingon sleeper agent who tried to kill her, and finding out her Captain was an evil MU shitheel who wanted to bone her), none of which actually worked as anything beyond torture porn. The final two episodes were rushed and nonsensical, with a damp squib of a finale.
Season 2
The season was off to a great start! Anson Mount was an excellent addition as Pike to the show, and the initial portrayal of the Red Angel mystery box was intriguing. Then the season went off the rails in the mid-section. I think this is because with the firing of showrunners Berg and Harberts (around The Sound of Thunder) Kurtzman felt obligated to scrap whatever woo-tilted plan for the Red Angel was originally intended, and came up with Mama Burnham's time war against Control out of nowhere. As a result, the season spends like two whole episodes (The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity) trying to use expository infodumping to desperately tell us black is white. That said, it somehow recovered from this, with Such Sweet Sorrow, Pt 2 probably the best finale of a Discovery episode.
Season 3
A mess of a season which contained some of my favorite episodes (Forget Me Not may still be my favorite DIS episode). The central issue with the season is it doesn't really have an arc. The first two episodes are about Burnham and the crew reuniting. Then they spend a few episodes trying to "find the Federation." Then Michael goes on this monomaniacal quest to find the "cause of the burn." I didn't find the reveal that it was due to Su'Kal to be as bad as many did - I thought it fit thematically quite well with Trek that it happened due to an accident, and finding it due to hostile aliens would have been awful. However, the shoehorning in of Osyraa as a 'bad guy" for Discovery to defeat at the last moment was a choice I really, really hated.
Season 4
This season could have, with a bit more work, been the single best of Discovery. Species 10-C was inspired and creative, and by the endgame of the series, we are confronted with one of the most diamond-hard sci-fi mysteries ever shown in Star Trek. Ruon Tarka was also a pretty compelling, multi-layered antagonist. However, there was really only enough story here to fill out four episodes, stretched across thirteen. As a result, we get tons of filler, and major pacing issues.
Season 5
Unfortunately, my least favorite season. Nearly every choice related to the season plot arc was lazy. As antagonists, Moll and La'k are never shown as anything beyond one-dimensional cliches. The Breen perform a story role almost identical to the Klingons, and the few times we see Breen characters, they are befitting Saturday morning cartoons. The "puzzles" offered up as part of the treasure hunt are worthy of a middle-grade book. The supposedly awe-inspiring tech of the progenitors is never really defined. Rayner though, was an inspired addition to the cast, though his addition helped to further sideline characters like Stamets, Tilly, and Saru, who seemed to have no story purpose any longer. Some episodes were good, but overall, it felt like the writer's room was tired and out of ideas. I'm left glad that it was canceled, if this was the best they could have come up with.
Tonally, the series is all over the map. As I joked elsewhere, Discovery started as Edgelord Trek, and ended as Hallmark Channel Trek. I mean, in the first season, Michael Burnham is put through an unbelievable level of trauma, but by the fifth season, the writers seem so averse to being "mean" to the characters that we don't see a single death of a "good guy" onscreen - not even a random redshirt. A show that began with all of the characters being closed off, nasty, and distrustful of one another ended on themes of love, friendship, and connection.
Yet, the central flaw in the series - the thing which made me consistently disappointed in each season - is the lack of attention to character. When Discovery first was announced, I was stoked, because as a darker, serialized version of Star Trek, I thought we would get a spiritual successor to DS9 - a show which allowed for long-form character arcs - deep, multi-season explorations of the main cast, allowing for dynamic growth across the show (similar to say Nog's journey across seven seasons). Yet Discovery was always focused on the "big plot" arc of the season - or if not, the semi-episodic plot of the week. Characterization took a backseat, and as time went on, the writers seem to have run out of ideas on how to use characters like Stamets, Tilly, Adira - even Saru got almost nothing other than a multi-season romance with T'Rina. Worse still, each season was pretty much a self-contained story, meaning there was little feeling of a coherent show. Character developments in one season would be promptly dropped the next go-around - and sometimes reversed - at the fiat of the writers. It just felt like they began with these conceptual plot ideas, and then tried to shoehorn the characters around the edges. Especially by the fifth season, this was disappointing, as by that time, DS9 was writing entire episode plots just based upon the characters themselves! So I can't help but think about what could have been.
I don't know how to rank each season, but going through each in brief:
Season 1
Though the beginning of the season was a bit rough in places, I was genuinely engrossed. Michael had a great character arc, and by Into the Forest I Go had made great strides recovering from the beginning of the season. Then they just fapped around for too long in the Mirror Universe, which completely came off the rails near the end. Michael suffered three different traumas in short succession (Finding out her dead mentor's clone was Space Hitler, finding out her boyfriend was a Klingon sleeper agent who tried to kill her, and finding out her Captain was an evil MU shitheel who wanted to bone her), none of which actually worked as anything beyond torture porn. The final two episodes were rushed and nonsensical, with a damp squib of a finale.
Season 2
The season was off to a great start! Anson Mount was an excellent addition as Pike to the show, and the initial portrayal of the Red Angel mystery box was intriguing. Then the season went off the rails in the mid-section. I think this is because with the firing of showrunners Berg and Harberts (around The Sound of Thunder) Kurtzman felt obligated to scrap whatever woo-tilted plan for the Red Angel was originally intended, and came up with Mama Burnham's time war against Control out of nowhere. As a result, the season spends like two whole episodes (The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity) trying to use expository infodumping to desperately tell us black is white. That said, it somehow recovered from this, with Such Sweet Sorrow, Pt 2 probably the best finale of a Discovery episode.
Season 3
A mess of a season which contained some of my favorite episodes (Forget Me Not may still be my favorite DIS episode). The central issue with the season is it doesn't really have an arc. The first two episodes are about Burnham and the crew reuniting. Then they spend a few episodes trying to "find the Federation." Then Michael goes on this monomaniacal quest to find the "cause of the burn." I didn't find the reveal that it was due to Su'Kal to be as bad as many did - I thought it fit thematically quite well with Trek that it happened due to an accident, and finding it due to hostile aliens would have been awful. However, the shoehorning in of Osyraa as a 'bad guy" for Discovery to defeat at the last moment was a choice I really, really hated.
Season 4
This season could have, with a bit more work, been the single best of Discovery. Species 10-C was inspired and creative, and by the endgame of the series, we are confronted with one of the most diamond-hard sci-fi mysteries ever shown in Star Trek. Ruon Tarka was also a pretty compelling, multi-layered antagonist. However, there was really only enough story here to fill out four episodes, stretched across thirteen. As a result, we get tons of filler, and major pacing issues.
Season 5
Unfortunately, my least favorite season. Nearly every choice related to the season plot arc was lazy. As antagonists, Moll and La'k are never shown as anything beyond one-dimensional cliches. The Breen perform a story role almost identical to the Klingons, and the few times we see Breen characters, they are befitting Saturday morning cartoons. The "puzzles" offered up as part of the treasure hunt are worthy of a middle-grade book. The supposedly awe-inspiring tech of the progenitors is never really defined. Rayner though, was an inspired addition to the cast, though his addition helped to further sideline characters like Stamets, Tilly, and Saru, who seemed to have no story purpose any longer. Some episodes were good, but overall, it felt like the writer's room was tired and out of ideas. I'm left glad that it was canceled, if this was the best they could have come up with.
DISCO came on at a dark time in my life and gave me something to look forward to. I'll forever be grateful for that, and for re-starting Star Trek on TV.
Season 1 blew my mind. New Klingons! A main character who becomes a mutineer and prisoner! Georgiou! Lorca! Spore Drive! Tardigrades! So many new and interesting ideas and characters. Even Sarek was examined from a different point of view. I loved Ash Tyler and really felt for him when the truth came out. I liked the darker Harry Mudd. Saru was a fave from the beginning, as was Stamets. I wasn't sure about Tilly, but she grew on me. Not having seen the MU in ENT, I rather liked what they did with it here. Ending the season with the tease about Pike and the Enterprise made me antsy for the next season.
Season 2 was a bit uneven. The Red Angel storyline confused me, and now that I know about the BTS stuff I understand why. Still, I really liked Mount, Peck, and Notaro immediately. I was glad to see Culber back, even if I thought it was done in an odd way. "The Sound of Thunder" was a highlight and I thought Kaminar was fascinating. I wasn't as thrilled by the Control storyline. Other than Pike and Spock (and spinning off SNW), this was my least favorite season.
Season 3 was great. "That Hope Is You, Part 1" was a strong opener and I liked Book right away. The Burn was an interesting mystery. I didn't have any issue with the cause - it seemed very Star Trek to me. I liked Adira, but never felt the actor playing Gray was really up to the part. I loved the Vulcans and Romulans being reunified. Kwejian was a great new planet. Kovich was an interesting addition to the recurring cast and I adore Admiral Vance. I felt they could've spent more time on the Emerald Chain and the re-creation of the Federation.
Season 4 was a step up from 3. "Kobayashi Maru" was a terrific opener. The destruction of Kwejian was heartbreaking and Ajala did a great job showing Book's grief and loss. I mostly liked the episode with the cadets and think if SFA can continue in the "everyone's been separate so we have to learn to work together again" vibe, it'll work. Tarka was a great character and deeply f'd up. Gray did something useful in helping Zora. He's still probably the only character I never clicked with. Absolutely loved Species 10-C and felt it was the most truly alien species we've encountered and loved the resolution as well.
Season 5 - a little too soon to think of it as a whole. I definitely enjoyed the ride. Rayner was great.
Season 1 blew my mind. New Klingons! A main character who becomes a mutineer and prisoner! Georgiou! Lorca! Spore Drive! Tardigrades! So many new and interesting ideas and characters. Even Sarek was examined from a different point of view. I loved Ash Tyler and really felt for him when the truth came out. I liked the darker Harry Mudd. Saru was a fave from the beginning, as was Stamets. I wasn't sure about Tilly, but she grew on me. Not having seen the MU in ENT, I rather liked what they did with it here. Ending the season with the tease about Pike and the Enterprise made me antsy for the next season.
Season 2 was a bit uneven. The Red Angel storyline confused me, and now that I know about the BTS stuff I understand why. Still, I really liked Mount, Peck, and Notaro immediately. I was glad to see Culber back, even if I thought it was done in an odd way. "The Sound of Thunder" was a highlight and I thought Kaminar was fascinating. I wasn't as thrilled by the Control storyline. Other than Pike and Spock (and spinning off SNW), this was my least favorite season.
Season 3 was great. "That Hope Is You, Part 1" was a strong opener and I liked Book right away. The Burn was an interesting mystery. I didn't have any issue with the cause - it seemed very Star Trek to me. I liked Adira, but never felt the actor playing Gray was really up to the part. I loved the Vulcans and Romulans being reunified. Kwejian was a great new planet. Kovich was an interesting addition to the recurring cast and I adore Admiral Vance. I felt they could've spent more time on the Emerald Chain and the re-creation of the Federation.
Season 4 was a step up from 3. "Kobayashi Maru" was a terrific opener. The destruction of Kwejian was heartbreaking and Ajala did a great job showing Book's grief and loss. I mostly liked the episode with the cadets and think if SFA can continue in the "everyone's been separate so we have to learn to work together again" vibe, it'll work. Tarka was a great character and deeply f'd up. Gray did something useful in helping Zora. He's still probably the only character I never clicked with. Absolutely loved Species 10-C and felt it was the most truly alien species we've encountered and loved the resolution as well.
Season 5 - a little too soon to think of it as a whole. I definitely enjoyed the ride. Rayner was great.
The key difference is that TOS organically became a phenomenon audiences--not just Star Trek fans--wanted to see continue after 1969. The feverish hunger/demand spawned TAS, the aborted TV re-launch, and ultimately, the movies. Next to no one is saying that about DISCO (or any of CBS Trek, for that matter). Either a production has that inherent quality to capture the attention, interest and respect of audiences, or it does not. While other CBS-Trek series still run (well, LD is on its way out), I seriously doubt any--once they are cancelled--will spawn such an interest to revive a property to that degree.
Star Trek stopped being a phenomenon of that kind decades ago.
Of course not. I'd never in 1,000,000 years say that in 2034 there will be a Discovery movie in theaters. That's insane. I think it might be possible they'll do a TV Movie, I'd say there's a non-zero chance now that TV Movies are a thing for Star Trek, but that's as far as I'll go.
We might get something with Calypso but with a different cast.
I signed up for CBS All Access just to watch Discovery. I bailed halfway through Season One. Burnham was not an interesting or compelling character (despite the narrative's repeated insistence), the war story was dull, and Jason Isaacs was utterly wasted as Lorca. Plus, going to the Mirror Universe so soon was an admission that they were having trouble developing characters/storylines the audience would care to invest in.
The one single positive I can say on its behalf is that it motivated me to finally watch DS9, which has since become my favorite Trek series.
The one single positive I can say on its behalf is that it motivated me to finally watch DS9, which has since become my favorite Trek series.
It should have been cancelled after two seasons and the money allocated towards more for the other shows. And a few episodes of budget to 4k restore DS9 and Voyager on a one season per year basis staggered between each show and shown on Paramount+ and other streaming services worldwide years before blurays were made available to goose the subscription retention numbers and imply victory for a while.
Could have gotten all the old crews on as an aftershow for each of them telling the same convention tales to a blissed out Wheaton and/or more respectful archive creature.
It would've saved a lot of money, improved the state of their current holdings, and provided higher quality copies to flog worldwide forever. A friend who worked for Netflix told me Voyager did INCREDIBLE streaming numbers for years. So I think it would've been worth the expenditure... and the other shows could've added a few episodes and built more sets. Or did spinoff movie length specials instead of this weird showrunner game of musical chairs with Discovery that really made for a confusing mess.
Could have gotten all the old crews on as an aftershow for each of them telling the same convention tales to a blissed out Wheaton and/or more respectful archive creature.
It would've saved a lot of money, improved the state of their current holdings, and provided higher quality copies to flog worldwide forever. A friend who worked for Netflix told me Voyager did INCREDIBLE streaming numbers for years. So I think it would've been worth the expenditure... and the other shows could've added a few episodes and built more sets. Or did spinoff movie length specials instead of this weird showrunner game of musical chairs with Discovery that really made for a confusing mess.
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Paramount wouldn't have made nearly as much money on that and if we're talking about wasted money, it's their entire streaming platform. They should have kept Star Trek on Netflix.
Paramount+ just sent me one of those "come back for a month for free" emails. I took them up on the offer since it was the ad-free Showtime tier. Aside from watching the season 5 premiere for free on YouTube, I haven't seen any episodes after early season 3. I'll see how far I get this time now that I can watch for free without worrying that hate watching still equals watching.
