To be fair, that has been 90% of this subforum ever since the series ended
How do/did you feel about the return of the Enterprise-D?
- Thread starter TroiFan4ever
- Start date
I agree but the execution sticks a little sideways. It doesn't land the way I think was intended. Like, we see Picard grow a bit, and become a little less gruff, and a little less arrogant going from TNG to the films to Picard the series. But, then it ends up kind of the way The Next Generation ended and that sours the ending a bit for me.
Like, it took going back to the Enterprise D to have that meaning crystalized? I guess that what it takes for people.
Season 3 continues to be just so close to being good for me, so it's hard to have these moments that just stand out to me as not being congruent with the rest of the series. And to be told this is the best of the whole Trek to date is really strange to comprehend when I'm left with this feeling that message is saying "look to the past."
The last part of "Võx" may have had issues, sure (pacing, lighting, the appropriatness of their behavior in a crisis, etc.), but seeing the TNG crew back together on the Enterprise-D was so awesome that I can overlook all of that.
Plus, I've been thinking lately that the finale should have been titled "The Next Generation" as a tribute to the crew's reunion as well as the look forward to the new generation as they embark on new adventures.
Plus, I've been thinking lately that the finale should have been titled "The Next Generation" as a tribute to the crew's reunion as well as the look forward to the new generation as they embark on new adventures.
Two possible solutions there:
-Just have a new bridge set. It's been twenty years, the ship's bridge could have gotten a refit at some point.
-Or have Shelby in front of a green screen and insert the Enterprise E's bridge from the movies in the background. It's what they did with the Enterprise E's briefing room for that picture of Picard holding baby Thad in S1.
One could definitely say that.
I think it comes down to one's point of view (thank you, Obi-Wan), and how one regards the history. In my opinion, the valuing of history is a critical part of learning, but remaining bound to history and that place can leave one feeling lacking in the present.
I have no doubt that the reunion on the bridge of the Enterprise was like a warm hug, I imagine. But, to me, it had a much different flavor to it, because it felt like trying to go back in time, and reclaim that glory. The past was the best part of our lives.
The other perspective seems to be more shallow: the history is cool; thank you for honoring it. I envy that point of view to a certain degree.
See this is the part that I don't understand because I thought it was clear this had already been established well before they even know the E-D is a thing.
The whole crew was already making a difference, they were already going hard trying to solve the problem... by the time they got the Enterprise, it was really just a cherry on top that they had their old ship.
But The Last Generation summarizes the episode so well. "Last" is being used as in "last week" to mean previous, so what it means is that only the previous generation -the old fogies of the D- can save the day. After all, the youth these days with their brains that are still developing are too interconnected to do anything themselves.
You're right-they were making a difference. And then they stop in the middle of a crisis to have that heart felt "We're the crew of the Enterprise" making it feel like "this is the most important thing to ever happen in our lives."
Again, if that's not the meaning the way it is set up in the season, the way it is set up in the episode, leaves a bit to be desired.
It's kind of like how in the Star Wars prequels, known characters to the audience from the Original Trilogy were not always treated like regular characters. "R2 D2" is pronounced very strangely by Captain Panaka and it gives an opportunity for, as a friend of mine put it, the cheering and clapping in a theater audience.
Again, I'm quibbling at this point, but it stands out to me.
It kind of was the most important thing to ever happen in their lives.
But sure, it stands out. That was the point. It's ok if you didn't like it, but that was the entire point. Having the Enterprise D back was a big deal for both the characters AND the audience. It would have been honestly even more weird if they got their old ship back, the ship that we the audience like, and just played it off as "ok, it's a ship, let's move on."
To borrow a Star Wars reference too, it would be like Han Solo getting onto the Millennium Falcon again in Force Awakens and being like "meh, whatever got a new ship now."
Going back on to their old ship was the most important thing ever?
That's not what I'm saying. There is a balance to be struck. It was drawn out to the point that it made the Enterprise D feel like the ultimate goal of the series. At least to me. Again, it's a pacing thing.
Ok, that would be fine by me. It's a ship.
But, to continue that example Solo doesn't linger on it. He moves on to the next step of the mission. He says "We're home," and the plot moves on.
No, the mission they were undertaking was the most important thing ever.
The old ship was just like... "isn't that neat?"
Yeah I don't know, I didn't get that at all. Seeing the Enterprise-D was certainly cool, and a high point of the series from an audience perspective. In-universe I felt like it was absolutely believable that those people would react in the way that they did.
I really didn't find an issue with the pacing there. I can go into the episode and get an exact number but the amount of time spent on it is... minutes. I'm pretty sure less than five.
To compare it something from real life, i'm a big Ghostbusters fan. The first time I went to the firehouse in New York, I sat there and just like... stared at it for like 15 minutes. I can excuse a group of people who had a very strong connection to a place/object taking a couple of minutes, even in an emergency scenario, having a moment. And hell even through most of that, they're still moving it along and talking about the mission.
I feel like you're greatly exaggerating the amount of time spent on the ship.
I think that is where this a fundamental difference. I would wager to say that most people will develop a connection to place or objects that were significant to them. As a fan, to me, the Enterprise is not just "a ship". It truly is something of a character in its own right, I care about the ship just as much as I care about the characters. Sometimes more.
I find this perspective to be a bit odd, and generally at odds with what Star Trek tends to do. Like, at the end of STIV, do you think the crew should have just been like "Meh, who cares what ship we get. It's a ship", and then "Enterprise-A" shows up in front of them, to their reaction of "So? Who cares. A ship is a ship." and just move on?
But the movie DOES make a pretty big deal about making sure the Millenium Falcon gets a ton of play, from the dramatic "cover pulled off" introduction on through.
Possibly. I'm also stating how I felt it was put in the story too, not just the time but the words said, the way it takes space. It's not just time. It's application.
True. And it's equally annoying.
Yes, I do, to a degree. Of course there would be mourning in a way, but there's something strange to this whole thing.
Yes, I'm in the minority. But, I don't have this sentimentality in the same way. Some objects can be special, but the over dramatic trend towards ships as characters is one that leaves me very cold.
I can definitely respect that you are aware that you're probably in the minority there.
I guess there's not much meat on the bone left for this discussion. You've got an interesting perspective.
Batshit crazy is how I would describe it.
Well, I cried tears of joy seeing it again and having the cast back. From seeing her inside the hangers, to warping. To Earth, Crusher firing the sessions, flinging inside the cube, the ship Hovering over them Doing a beam out….. The near final science with them playing cards was absolutely brilliant.
It's funny because I'm much more of a Niner than a TNG fan. I love all of that era, but the ENT-D doesn't hold a special place in my heart like the Defiant or DS9 (the station). Yet, I grinned when I saw the ENT-D light up and return to complete the mission. I can only imagine how those that grew up with TNG felt seeing that.
Personally, I loved that they found a good excuse to bring the ship back and thought it made perfect sense as a bookend for the series overall.
The last episode begins with the ship flying towards the camera just like it did in the very first scene of season one, except this time it's not a dream. It's not completely the Enterprise either, they bolted the back end of another ship onto it, but I like that. Half of what they had is gone forever, but this hybrid of old and new still has 100% of the spirit and can get the job done. In fact it somehow ended up with the spirit of the Millennium Falcon as well, so I don't know what happened there. I could've done without a 640 metre starship swooping around the inside of a Borg cube.
But everything else was great and that recreated bridge set was worth every penny. I'm sure it really cut into the budget and greatly limited the number of legacy characters they could kill off, but I'm willing to live without those sacrifices.
The last episode begins with the ship flying towards the camera just like it did in the very first scene of season one, except this time it's not a dream. It's not completely the Enterprise either, they bolted the back end of another ship onto it, but I like that. Half of what they had is gone forever, but this hybrid of old and new still has 100% of the spirit and can get the job done. In fact it somehow ended up with the spirit of the Millennium Falcon as well, so I don't know what happened there. I could've done without a 640 metre starship swooping around the inside of a Borg cube.
But everything else was great and that recreated bridge set was worth every penny. I'm sure it really cut into the budget and greatly limited the number of legacy characters they could kill off, but I'm willing to live without those sacrifices.
Meh. Never was that fond of the design. I grew up with TOS in syndication and remember feeling quite betrayed after Star Trek IV there was this ugly beige ship with weird proportions and the bald guy. Took me quite a few years to tolerate TNG. By All Good Things I, it was ok but I had the movies to tide me over. By Generations, I was mature enough to appreciate it.
Like the Enterprise E better in every way.
Like the Enterprise E better in every way.
It was a lovely and unexpected surprise, even despite seeing the museum with lots of other special ships, which were only ships seen in the show and no others in previous episodes. Season 3 mostly did TNG the sort of justice, and greater depth, that the 90s flicks didn't do, and the 90s movies also feel more legitimized as a result of PIC3 (in generally great ways).
I didn't care for the "D" at first, but it grew on me - I bought the blueprint book at the scifi bookstore a couple decades ago and now have a 55x28" poster of the ship with nebula background hanging in a workroom.
The scene felt duly majestic... I need to pick up the soundtrack CD* as well; the score was a lovely mixture of new material, elegantly intertwined with just enough of the TNG scores to have a life of its own, without feeling like a copy or retread (which was something that DS9 definitely did do, see "The Way of the Warrior" among several others. Granted, TV production is a lot more fast paced and sometimes it happens... either which was, PIC3 is exceptionally done.)
* just checked; why the heck is it on vinyl only, when (a) Vinyl isn't as durable or with as much longevity, (b) surely requires more resources to make(?), and (c) has a more limited sound/frequency range? Oh well. I'd rather have better sounding music from CD's wider gamut than a larger square area for artwork.
The lighting threw me off, as TNG offered blue due to the cooler (7000K?) bulbs for accent lighting, but that was about it. The recreation really WAS solid and exceptionally done.
The plotting that led to the reveal, finding a ship that wasn't programmed to a central location (which seems Borg-like and yet Shelby didn't realize the pros vs cons of such a system either), made the reveal feel more natural. Yet the other museum ships weren't retrofitted? (But taking one of those -- they weren't as powerful, and the Klingon cloak would have been useless too.)
Geordi's painstaking detail in (a) explanation and (b) scenario in which he pieced it all together isn't implausible, given 24th century technology and even newer creations such as drones. But it's easier to roll with. Especially as Geordi is the very archetypal character who WOULD piece the ship back together, fighting to do so. It was his ship. Even more than the model of the Victory. Having bits of other starships to use didn't hurt, either - where the other ship lost its saucer, we don't fully know or need to. Starfleet had lots of Galaxy class ships to diddle with, and the detachable saucer design lent a larger chance to repatriate a full ship easier. A lot of the crew on the ship were just doing studies and not really operating the ship anyway. The skeleton crew trope pretty much worked.
The quick shift to the Borg from the Dominion was jarring, and didn't seem necessary -- but it grew on me, and in PIC the Borg were never done better than in season 3. Still, if they're digging up esoteric elements as plot baddies, such as Pakleds in LD or the Dominion (not related to TNG), doing a sequel to "Conspiracy" where the 80s day-glo crawdads meet up with the Dominion would have worked just as well, and allowing the final episodes to not be as abrupt in tonal shift.
That said, the final episode with the whizzy-bang bang battle still felt off. the "D" was always graceful, even in battle. The f/x of the Borg and Jupiter are awesome, but seeing the "D" whiz around like the Millennium Falcon -- maybe the 20-something demographic thought it was a thrill.
I still miss the old days of the UHF station airing it. With season 5, a major network affiliate (high-band VHF) started airing, which at first seemed like a blessing, but they took out so much footage during initial airing that going back to the bunny ears for UHF was the better choice... commercial breaks and program adverts in those late-80s colorful/pattern motifs created by the station for shows they purchased do offer some nostalgia and they were pretty lively and cool at the time. But if I recall, the major network ceased TNG after getting complaints of footage cutting.
Ironically, the very first scene of the show was Picard having a dream of him and Data playing poker in Enterprise-D's Ten Forward but since then I always imagined what it would be like to see the much-older cast on her bridge, thinking it was never going to happen! But it did!
I also love the very beginning of "The Last Generation" how it started with a piece of the S3-S7 opening of TNG and seeing Picard in the captain's seat. I like everyone being in their usual positions on TNG but I especially enjoyed Picard in the captain's chair, especially with Troi to his left and Riker to his right. Too bad he wasn't in it a lot in "The Last Generation". My other favorite part was the way Data flew the ship into the Borg cube with that dramatic music playing with a lot of laser bolts shooting at it.
That was the Star Trek surprise of the century! I'll leave it there for now.
I hope they do a spinoff, with Seven and Jack... and Q, who's redeemed at the end and after the less-effective season 2. Not sure why he needed to be named "Jack" (the show gives exposition but it's a bit much), but it doesn't not work.
If anything, also simmering over why Deanna has the PADD and looking up beaches while Data emotes... she's not the same person as she was when Counselor of the "D" and Riker's attitude of Data probably rubbed off on her after getting back together.
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