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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

M'rk son of Mogh said:
Or, Occam's razor, it was the same universe until it was changed the next season. Intent also goes a long way here.
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Obviously, but the point is that it's easy to reconcile because it was such a cursory reference. Intents change, and stories change with them. The new interpretation supplants the old, because creativity is a process of trial, error, and refinement over time.
 
Personally, I left my days of agonizing over the details of this stuff way back with my active "Star Trek" fandom. Now, if they tell me all the DC live-action shows/films are in the same multiverse, I just go, "Cool," and don't think about it too hard beyond that.

Not to say there's anything wrong with being more hardcore with continuity, conceptual consistency, and such -- I had a lot of fun being a walking "Trek" encyclopedia back in the day. It's just not so much my bag anymore. As William Hurt said in The Big Chill, "Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you." :)
 
The Realist said:
Now, if they tell me all the DC live-action shows/films are in the same multiverse, I just go, "Cool," and don't think about it too hard beyond that.
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Which is basically what I'm saying -- it's just a story conceit, nothing more than that. Even if different DC productions claim to be part of a multiverse, that doesn't guarantee there will actually be any consistency between them. So it should be taken with a grain of salt and not relied on as some kind of binding fact.
 
For me, one of the funner things about the Arrowverse's "CoIE" and the Flash movie was the new info they revealed about past DC universes/continuities. The Smallville Lois and Clark had daughters. Reeve's Superman and Slater's Supergirl eventually met and stood shoulder to shoulder. The world of George Reeves's Superman apparently gained a Flash at some point. Some fans may refuse to accept these as "canon" to those continuities, especially if they don't like the added developments (I know Welling's Clark having given up his powers was controversial), but I choose to accept them as such. For me, it's awesome to get these "micro-sequels" to beloved old series and films.
 
The Realist said:
Some fans may refuse to accept these as "canon" to those continuities, especially if they don't like the added developments (I know Welling's Clark having given up his powers was controversial), but I choose to accept them as such. For me, it's awesome to get these "micro-sequels" to beloved old series and films.
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"Canon" doesn't matter. It's all just stories. Different stories can tell things differently (for instance, the Smallville Season 11 comics are tough to reconcile with Crisis), but none of them are the "correct" answer, because it's all imaginary. The goal of telling stories is not to "get it right," just to offer entertaining and enjoyable possibilities. The cool thing about make-believe is that we don't have to limit ourselves to one "correct" version; we can enjoy multiple mutually incompatible possibilities. Every story is true while you're enjoying it, but then you can step out of it, shift mental gears, and immerse yourself in a different set of answers.
 
The Realist said:
Personally, I left my days of agonizing over the details of this stuff way back with my active "Star Trek" fandom. Now, if they tell me all the DC live-action shows/films are in the same multiverse, I just go, "Cool," and don't think about it too hard beyond that.
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I'm the same. I'm in it for the personal entertainment and satisfaction it gives me. Be it Star Trek, Star Wars, DC, Marvel, Stargate... The list goes on. As long as I like it, I watch it. If I don't like it, I don't watch it. Couldn't care less about 'The Holy Canon'.
 
The Realist said:
Some fans may refuse to accept these as "canon" to those continuities, especially if they don't like the added developments (I know Welling's Clark having given up his powers was controversial), but I choose to accept them as such.
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But the good thing is, there is no correct answer. Those that like it can accept it, those that don't can just assume it's from a parallel universe. Like, that's not actually Smallville Clark and Lois, it's them from a similar universe. ;)
 
Sure, you could say that and even justify it in-universe. After all, there must be any number of Earths where Lois and Clark look like Durance and Welling, and have similar histories.

Though I would argue that was clearly not the intent. That was supposed to be Smallville L&C all day long, and it's a lot more fun to accept them as such. It makes the actors' return rather pointless otherwise.
 
Tosk said:
But the good thing is, there is no correct answer. Those that like it can accept it, those that don't can just assume it's from a parallel universe. Like, that's not actually Smallville Clark and Lois, it's them from a similar universe. ;)
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Or it's just different imaginary stories about nonexistent characters, and we don't have to pretend they have some external reality. You choose to believe in the "universe" of the story while you're experiencing the story. You don't have to convince yourself of its continued existence once you're back in reality. It's called suspension of disbelief because it's temporary.
 
The Realist said:
Though I would argue that was clearly not the intent.
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Of course.

It's funny though, because they had previously played with the Smallville history by using the Kent farm and "Somebody Save Me" for Tyler's Superman instead of Welling's Clark. :)
 
Christopher said:
Or it's just different imaginary stories about nonexistent characters, and we don't have to pretend they have some external reality. You choose to believe in the "universe" of the story while you're experiencing the story. You don't have to convince yourself of its continued existence once you're back in reality. It's called suspension of disbelief because it's temporary.
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But it's more fun to imagine these things are really happening somewhere or somewhen else, and try to work out how different things fit together or what happened after or between when we've seen the characters.
 
JD said:
But it's more fun to imagine these things are really happening somewhere or somewhen else, and try to work out how different things fit together or what happened after or between when we've seen the characters.
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Sometimes, yes. But not always as some mandatory requirement. Often two interpretations of a fictional universe are so different that it requires rather extreme convolutions of logic to rationalize them as sharing a "multiverse."

Multiverse stories are a subgenre, just one category of storytelling out of many. Seeing the multiverse idea as some absolute rule that has to be imposed on every fictional universe indiscriminately is taking it too far. Especially if it prevents people from stepping outside the fiction and appreciating it it as fiction, as an artistic creation. A story should be enjoyed on both levels -- you immerse yourself in its internal "reality" while you're reading or watching it, but once you're back in the real world, you can engage with it as a work of artistry. But I think fandom today has become so obsessed with the "multiverse" trope that it's overwhelmed all other ways of thinking about stories.
 
Tosk said:
But the good thing is, there is no correct answer. Those that like it can accept it, those that don't can just assume it's from a parallel universe.
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...or not accept it as existing in some parallel universe at all, especially if adding external content (i.e. other productions) was not the intent of the creator(s).
 
Christopher said:
Sometimes, yes. But not always as some mandatory requirement. Often two interpretations of a fictional universe are so different that it requires rather extreme convolutions of logic to rationalize them as sharing a "multiverse."

Multiverse stories are a subgenre, just one category of storytelling out of many. Seeing the multiverse idea as some absolute rule that has to be imposed on every fictional universe indiscriminately is taking it too far. Especially if it prevents people from stepping outside the fiction and appreciating it it as fiction, as an artistic creation. A story should be enjoyed on both levels -- you immerse yourself in its internal "reality" while you're reading or watching it, but once you're back in the real world, you can engage with it as a work of artistry. But I think fandom today has become so obsessed with the "multiverse" trope that it's overwhelmed all other ways of thinking about stories.
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I just ignore the inconsistancies and move on. Obviously, I also appreciate them as artwork too, but there's no reason a person can't go along with the "reality" of the story and appreciate it as a work of art at the same time. You don't have to stop doing one in order to do the other.
 
JD said:
I just ignore the inconsistancies and move on. Obviously, I also appreciate them as artwork too, but there's no reason a person can't go along with the "reality" of the story and appreciate it as a work of art at the same time. You don't have to stop doing one in order to do the other.
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As I said, it's not an absolute. Multiverses can be fun, but when everything is automatically assumed to be a multiverse, that just gets tiresome. Multiverses have become an overused fad very quickly.
 
The Realist said:
Not to say there's anything wrong with being more hardcore with continuity, conceptual consistency, and such -- I had a lot of fun being a walking "Trek" encyclopedia back in the day. It's just not so much my bag anymore. As William Hurt said in The Big Chill, "Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you." :)
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Exactly. People try too hard, and I honestly think its deliberate to be angry at (insert company here) because they need a villian in their lives.
Commander Troi said:
It's all Heinlein's fault... :whistle:
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It usually is.
 
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