If they had filmed "Hollow Pursuit" today, would Barclay have remained on the Enterprise at the end?

[Skipper]

This question came to mind while reading some news stories.

Suppose that today, IRL, you work in some organization, civilian (a company) or military (army, navy etc). It turns out that on a co-worker's work computer or smartphone he has AI-made and deepfake porn films starring him and his colleagues and superiors. And not only are there sex scenes, but also sequences where his superiors are humiliated.

Now, in the worst case scenario he would be fired immediately. Best case, transferred. Because even if he were "forgiven", colleagues would simply be uncomfortable working with him. Given that what was considered science fiction is now possible and attitudes towards some issues have changed, I find it difficult to think that if Hollow Pursuit were written today Barclay would remain on the Enterprise. The best outcome for him that I can think of would be that the fact would not be mentioned on his personnel file and in exchange he would immediately request a transfer and follow a re-education and therapeutic course. Because otherwise it would give the impression that the writers "condoned" these types of behaviors.

What do you think?

 

[Guy Gardener]

There were no rules against what Barclay did.

(They find the three musketeers and the blue boy by the folly)
LAFORGE: Like I said, Commander, Barclay's been running some unusual programs.
RIKER: This is a violation of protocol. Crewmembers should not be simulated in the holodeck.
LAFORGE: Commander I don't think there's any regulation against
RIKER: Well there ought to be. Computer, discontinue programme and erase.
TROI: Computer, belay that order.

And Big Holodeck continued to make sure that it was still legal a decade later after, Quark, Tuvok, and the Doctor did roughly the same thing, again without consequences.

Also... Was Barclay's Three Musketeers sketch porn?

 

[Michael]

I think you are right; something like this would probably get you fired / transferred in today’s real life working world. Which is why — if they were writing “Hollow Pursuits” today — they would probably just get rid of that aspect altogether. You could have almost the exact same episode, just take out Barclay recreating a sexualized Troi and humiliating holographic versions of his superiors. But other than that — the underlying story about a neurodivergent-coded, socially awkward and highly intelligent officer who uses the holodeck to escape his anxieties and needs the help of his co-workers to not lose the grip on reality — it’s still a good one to tell. It’s probably more topical today than it was 25 years ago.

I suspect what they would also change if they were writing “Hollow Pursuits” today, is the dismissive, ridiculing, insensitive and borderline bullying behavior displayed by the senior staff towards a person like Barclay. Even before they find out what he’s doing on the holodeck their treatment of him is absolutely not okay from today’s point of view. As much as I like both Riker and La Forge, in this episode they come off as insensitive dicks who can’t handle someone who’s obviously struggling to fit in. Doesn’t really reflect well on their leadership skills.

 

[Skipper]

There were no rules against what Barclay did.



And Big Holodeck continued to make sure that it was still legal a decade later after, Quark, Tuvok, and the Doctor did roughly the same thing, again without consequences.

1) Well, it was a different time. I suppose in the 80's it was expected that women would be flattered by being used as accessories in masturbatory fantasies and that said fantasies would be made public.
2) I believe that until 3-4 years ago there were no regulations that said things like "Please don't use AI on office computers to make porn starring your female colleagues". That doesn't make it ok.

Also... Was Barclay's Three Musketeers sketch porn?

I am very sure that in the end Barclay would have won the heart of Milady De Winter (played by Troi), who would have generously given herself to the brave Barkley.

 

[Guy Gardener]

1) Well, it was a different time. I suppose in the 80's it was expected that women would be flattered by being used as accessories in masturbatory fantasies and that said fantasies would be made public.
2) I believe that until 3-4 years ago there were no regulations that said things like "Please don't use AI on office computers to make porn starring your female colleagues". That doesn't make it ok.

I am very sure that in the end Barclay would have won the heart of Milady De Winter (played by Troi), who would have generously given herself to the brave Barkley.

I think as a gentleman (in character) he would have taken the high road and refused her again, and again, to his delight.

The womyn were furious for being cast as sex dolls but Less furious than Riker for being thought of as short.

 

[Skipper]

I think you are right; something like this would probably get you fired / transferred in today’s real life working world. Which is why — if they were writing “Hollow Pursuits” today — they would probably just get rid of that aspect altogether. You could have almost the exact same episode, just take out Barclay recreating a sexualized Troi and humiliating holographic versions of his superiors. But other than that — the underlying story about a neurodivergent-coded, socially awkward and highly intelligent officer who uses the holodeck to escape his anxieties and needs the help of his co-workers to not lose the grip on reality — it’s still a good one to tell. It’s probably more topical today than it was 25 years ago.

Yeah, something similar to The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, without the need of involving his coworkers in his fantasies.

I suspect what they would also change if they were writing “Hollow Pursuits” today, is the dismissive, ridiculing, insensitive and borderline bullying behavior displayed by the senior staff towards a person like Barclay. Even before they find out what he’s doing on the holodeck their treatment of him is absolutely not okay from today’s point of view. As much as I like both Riker and La Forge, in this episode they come off as insensitive dicks who can’t handle someone who’s obviously struggling to fit in. Doesn’t really reflect well on their leadership skills.

From this point of view I totally agree. And I've noticed that there is virtually no concept of HR in the Star Trek universe. If you have problems with your superior, the only way to resolve it is to contact their superior. Or escalate further. There is no way to address someone outside the hierarchy. It doesn't seem very efficient to me.

The only thing that makes me somehow justify Riker and La Forge (and I use the word "justify" very loosely) is that the Enterprise should in theory have the best of the best of the best working on it. It would be as if Delta Force suddenly found in their ranks someone incapable, I don't know, of loading a weapon. First they would wonder what he is doing there, then they would use harsh methods to "straighten" him out.

 

[Skipper]

I read the summary for "Hollow Pursuit" and there was one detail I didn't remember. The former Barclay's commanding officer spoke highly of Barclay to the Enterprise crew. But then Riker even suggested that he had exaggerated his assessment of Barclay to hasten the departure of a troublesome officer. So he ended up on the flagship of the fleet thanks to his incompetence.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well Barclay is a good engineer, but, he may be on the autistic spectrum where hes very good at his job, but his social skills are crap. and uses the holodeck to escape. Now that doesn't condone him using the crew as characters in his fantasy though. There SHOULD be a protocol that would maybe make it okay to use crew or other peoples faces for stuff, but if it strays into the "Fantasy" stuff, the computer wouldn't allow it.
So his 3 musketeers fantasy would be okay ( technically) but if he tries to have sexy time, the computer would halt it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well Barclay is a good engineer, but, he may be on the autistic spectrum where hes very good at his job, but his social skills are crap. and uses the holodeck to escape. Now that doesn't condone him using the crew as characters in his fantasy though. There SHOULD be a protocol that would maybe make it okay to use crew or other peoples faces for stuff, but if it strays into the "Fantasy" stuff, the computer wouldn't allow it.
So his 3 musketeers fantasy would be okay ( technically) but if he tries to have sexy time, the computer would halt it.

Seven of Nine boffed a Holographic Chakotay.

The real Chakotay was a little annoyed, but then he still owed her for all those times he almost killed Seven in Scorpion, which is probably why he let her date him.

Romulan Tuvok made a holo Neelix specifically to murder, over and over again.

The Holographic Voyager crew Barclay befriended in Pathfinder, seemed like for Barclay's personal recreation, rather than part of the official rescue effort... Did it seem like he was laying pipe with any of the holograms?

 

[Skipper]

Well Barclay is a good engineer, but, he may be on the autistic spectrum where hes very good at his job, but his social skills are crap. and uses the holodeck to escape. Now that doesn't condone him using the crew as characters in his fantasy though. There SHOULD be a protocol that would maybe make it okay to use crew or other peoples faces for stuff, but if it strays into the "Fantasy" stuff, the computer wouldn't allow it.
So his 3 musketeers fantasy would be okay ( technically) but if he tries to have sexy time, the computer would halt it.

I found it a little naive of them that they were all flabbergasted that someone would use holosuite to do these things.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that as soon as version 1.0 of Photoshop came out, someone used it to put some acquaintance's face on a porn star's body.

 

[Jayson1]

Actually it is Riker and company who might be the ones who get into trouble for violating his privacy. Just walking in on someones private holodeck time has you would think be illegal. If people hadn't entered they would never know what he is doing in private, which is how it should be.
The only issue is if Barclay hacked the Enterprise computer system to get hold of peoples Personal logs or got pictures of real people to make their hologram more accurate to what they really look like naked. Basically a naked hologram of Riker or Troi will not look like what Riker and Troi really look like naked, because it would I think be against the law for the computer to access that private data and just give it over to a stranger.
In fact I bet most holograms not designed for sex don't even have a penis or vagina underneath their clothing. Remember the EMH had to create one for himself , once he choose to expand his program and become in essence a living being and not just Emergency Holographic Program.

 

[valkyrie013]

well think back to Leah Brahms when she ran Geordi's holo program, she was appalled.

Where does it end though?? Lets say for example:
Barclay likes Troi, Barclay is knowledgeable, he installs holo emitters in his own quarters, and runs a program of Troi in his quarters programmed to act like his wife, could he do that? would the computer let him?

 

[TheAdmiralty]

If someone just made deepfake videos of coworkers which were clearly jokes and weren't publicly distributed I don't see why you should get fired for that. His Three Musketeers thing falls more or less into that category. Actually using real people as sex holograms would obviously be completely inappropriate but they were vague as to whether he did that.

Seven of Nine boffed a Holographic Chakotay.

Always bugs me that people go on and on about Barclay even though it's not actually established he did anything sexual with any of the holograms, but then Seven gets a pass even though we know she really did it. TNG is more popular so maybe some of the people complaining just haven't seen the Voyager episode, but still.

 

[Quantum21]

Yes, because at least he's getting treatment.

 

[FederationHistorian]

In today’s culture, the episode would not get made. But I do not think today’s culture is reflective of what would actually happen if holodeck technology were real. Since public domain and artistic license - along with the derivative terms of historical license, dramatic license, poetic license and narrative license - would likely be factors already considered in what is and is not allowed on the holodeck.

There were no rules against what Barclay did.



And Big Holodeck continued to make sure that it was still legal a decade later after, Quark, Tuvok, and the Doctor did roughly the same thing, again without consequences.

Also... Was Barclay's Three Musketeers sketch porn?

I think that’s why its not illegal.

Its okay to blow away holographic images of your colleagues, for both training and entertainment purposes, and simulate their murder. As well as put them in a number of humiliating situations. But its not okay to screw holographic images of these same colleagues, unless there is artistic license behind it?

(I’m not including Vorik here, as he was obsessive about B’Elanna during his bout with pon farr and the Doctor actually tried to discourage Vorik’s incessant pursuit/ sexual harassment of B’Elanna by substituting a holographic Vulcan female in her place. It does not seem like a holographic B’Elanna would have been on the table in this situation).

We also have to consider that Riker, as a known womanizer, might feel a bit threatened at the normalization of the holodeck being used in the way Barclay used them. The female crew preferring holo-Riker over the real Riker would be treated far differently from the female crew choosing a holocharacter over Riker.

Ironically, Moriarty and the Doctor being recognized as a sentient beings may actually pave the way for such uses of the holodeck to become illegal. Since it boils down to consent and if the holograms are sentient enough to know how they are being used. Of course, there’s also the issue of the holodeck being reset to factory setting to erase this sentience.

 

[BillJ]

Let's hope they don't remake "Hollow Pursuits", it wasn't very good the first time around.

 

[valkyrie013]

And if we remember Lower Decks, and the.. Bio Filter.. they had to clean out.. Eww..
Might be some some type of Command level overrides maybe? Or Seven just bypassed any lockout to Snu Snu Chakotay.

 

[Jayson1]

well think back to Leah Brahms when she ran Geordi's holo program, she was appalled.

Where does it end though?? Lets say for example:
Barclay likes Troi, Barclay is knowledgeable, he installs holo emitters in his own quarters, and runs a program of Troi in his quarters programmed to act like his wife, could he do that? would the computer let him?

That wasn't a sex program. Granted the computer did make her more flirty than you would think it would do, but the computer also didn't include info about her being married and their was like a 93% difference I think it was in recreating a replica personality of the regular Brahams. Plus he never revised to program considering that she walked in when it was just repeating stuff from the season 3 episode. I can understand her being a little freaked out at first but if she had watched the whole program I think she would realize she overacted in thinking it was some sexy fantasy program. Why would a sex fantasy program even be set in the Utopia PLanitia drafting room or whatever it was called anyways.

 

[Jayson1]

Let's hope they don't remake "Hollow Pursuits", it wasn't very good the first time around.

I love that episode. Barclay is one of Trek's best guest characters. Not that they should recreate the episode. Not even sure why one would even do that. I would like to see Barclay again someday. I don't care if the actor might be a asshole. I want more Barclay.

 

[BillJ]

I love that episode. Barclay is one of Trek's best guest characters. Not that they should recreate the episode. Not even sure why one would even do that. I would like to see Barclay again someday. I don't care if the actor might be a asshole. I want more Barclay.

I think he is one of the most overrated characters to ever grace the franchise.