If they had filmed "Hollow Pursuit" today, would Barclay have remained on the Enterprise at the end?

[Quantum21]

And if we remember Lower Decks, and the.. Bio Filter.. they had to clean out.. Eww..
Might be some some type of Command level overrides maybe? Or Seven just bypassed any lockout to Snu Snu Chakotay.

Not Canon in my book. Little DOTs are using much more advanced methods to do this.

 

[Jayson1]

I think obviously everyone is entitled to their fantasies. If in my free time I dream of having orgies with colleagues but during work I treat them with respect and professionalism there is nothing to object to.

The problem, rightly so, is when my fantasies interfere with my work. The other problem is that Barckley did nothing to try to keep his fantasies private. Using a modern analogy: there is an important work meeting and this colleague doesn't show up. They try to contact him but can't. Then they go to his workstation and found him intently watching Deep Throat 12 starring his coworkers.

How long do you think he would keep his current job?

I would think the holodeck would always be assumed to be a private setting once your inside running a program. Even if you need to go in in for a emergency or you think someone might be hurt of something I would think the proper thing to do would be to shut off the program off from the outside before entering . Granted they did try to call him first but he had fallen asleep and didn't respond so I could see this as being a case where you would need to do that. Granted you still might walk in their with him butt naked or something so it's not perfect in terms of protecting his privacy but better than just barging in.

 

[Jayson1]

I think "Hollow Pursuits" is painful to watch as an episode. It is a product of its time, but... is that enough to say it gets a pass? This is a show that is meant to be BETTER than a product of its time because it's set in a far future. They could - and should - have done better than to show everyone picking on Barclay for being on the spectrum. They always claim they're so evolved as a species and yet the first thing they do when someone who isn't like them comes aboard is to pick on him and call him Broccoli, just because he's clearly extremly socially awkward and having an incredibly difficult time. SOME evolved humanity right there, thanks but no thanks.

And Barclay should not even have been ABLE to create a program like that where he gets to use the likeness of fellow officers to play around with. Even in the 80s/90s when this episode was made it should have been clear that this is a no no. So I guess my answer is "the entire episode should have been tossed".

What I find interesting is that Hollow Pursuits was actually written by a woman, not by - what I'd expect - a dude who wanted to write a story about "a fellow awkward nerd dude who uses the holodeck to get laid". I would love to hear her thoughts on this entire process and what made her write things that way.

Only I don't think he has access to peoples likeness. I think you can sort of simulate what a real person looks like in a sophisticated deep fake kind of way but you can not get a exact copy in terms of what they look liked naked. It is kind of the same as a guy masturbating to Scarlett Johansson and only going off what she looks like in her movie roles and having never seen her naked for real.

Anything naked created is basically going to be left up to that persons imagination or the computer which itself would not have access to any real persons personal data such as any naked pictures from maybe health exams or stuff like that. Especially when it comes to less advanced holodecks like the ones Quark owned. The Enterprise Holodecks were no doubt state of arc but I am guessing most holodecks in the Federation are not quite as advanced.

As for doing all this with co-workers. I can see that being something that is unhealthy for sure because you got to work with them but at the same time it's still comes down to a matter of privacy. Whatever you do during your holodeck time is up to you and no government should be able to tell you what kind of fantasies your allowed to have. As long as your not using other people's personal data or detailed likeness that all comes down to individual choice. Granted this also Trek were people's views on sex are less puritan. They aren't exactly space hippies but one of the changes I guess that has come with the lost of organized religion is a less inhibited view on things like nudity and sexuality.

 

[Farscape One]

No. Of course they have fantasies. Why wouldn't they. It's surprising that she would write a story where a dude uses an actual woman's likeness without her consent to pleasure himself on the holodeck, in essence using her as an object in his sexual fantasy. That's what I find surprising.

I don't find it surprising at all. Women have sexual fantasies, too. If Barclay was a woman and had a man in a sexual fantasy scenario without his consent, would anybody be crying foul? I doubt it. It's a ridiculous double standard.

We are also assuming he did have a sexual component to Troi and Crusher. The implication is there, but the closest we see to it is him falling asleep on holo-Crusher's lap and holo-Troi responding to his show of confidence in the teaser in fake Ten Forward and goddess of empathy speech.

Otherwise, we are all acting like Dr. Brahms in "Galaxy's Child"... making assumptions based on a fraction of visual evidence.

 

[Jedman67]

Because TNG was family-friendly, prime time TV, any allusions to sex or porn were just that - vague hints and allusions.
If Hollow Pursuits had been written to be explicit and rated R, I'd be a lot less sympathetic towards Barclay.

well think back to Leah Brahms when she ran Geordi's holo program, she was appalled.

Yeah, I didn't really get that. He did make her flirty and maybe a little suggestive, but not actually sexual.
Actually yeah, I get it.
He had the computer recreate a real woman and change her personality to suit him.

He'd have been much better off having recreated Zimmerman.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

The whole "making assumptions" thing is exactly why I said I would find it interesting to hear from the writer of the episode and her reasoning behind the story.

 

[Reymet_2]

Suppose that today, IRL, you work in some organization, civilian (a company) or military (army, navy etc). It turns out that on a co-worker's work computer or smartphone he has AI-made and deepfake porn films starring him and his colleagues and superiors.

If this co-worker is not an idiot, he would not store such stuff on his work computer. If his work computer and his come computer are the same computer, he should have hidden this stuff more seriously (however, Barclay didn't have any possibilities to make such programs available only to him).

But aside from that, I don't see any issue here. What happens inside Barclay's head has nothing to do with anyone except Barclay himself as long as it doesn't hinder him to fulfill his duties and doesn't persuade him to somehow harm real people (Troi, Crusher or anyone else).

Because otherwise it would give the impression that the writers "condoned" these types of behaviors.

I would also condone such behavior because Barclay's fantasies are his and only his business.

 

[Skipper]

Granted this also Trek were people's views on sex are less puritan.

Honestly, in TNG, they seemed absolutely aligned with the (U.S.) views on sex of the 80s.

1) All relationships presented were monogamous and exclusive.
2) They slavishly followed the rules of heteronormativity
3) As in the best of American traditions, sexual relationships were divided exclusively into: one-night stand, dating or serious long-term relationship.

Sex outside of these narrow parameters was not an option. Your average European country was more sexually diverse than the Star Trek TNG universe.

 

[Skipper]

I would also condone such behavior because Barclay's fantasies are his and only his business.

Of course they are. The problem is that he didn't make sure they were exclusively his business.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

As people have pointed out, it IS an American TV show, aimed at a US audience first and foremost and with American TV standards as the ones to go with, as weird and cringey as this might make some things look like to a European like myself indeed.

 

[Skipper]

As people have pointed out, it IS an American TV show, aimed at a US audience first and foremost and with American TV standards as the ones to go with, as weird and cringey as this might make some things look like to a European like myself indeed.

I know this very well, but how else would I feel superior, excuse me?!!?

 

[Reymet_2]

The problem is that he didn't make sure they were exclusively his business.

As I have said already, he was basically unable to do this.

 

[Skipper]

Because TNG was family-friendly, prime time TV, any allusions to sex or porn were just that - vague hints and allusions.

Well, I think for Prime Time tv this was explicit enough

It's obviously not a friendship kiss, it's clearly romantic/sensual in nature.

 

[Skipper]

As I have said already, he was basically unable to do this.

So he shouldn't have done it, simple as that. Returning to my example, if I know that it is impossible for my deepfake porn to remain private, I avoid making it.

 

[Alexander Corrino]

I know this very well, but how else would I feel superior, excuse me?!!?

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin anything Really tho, when I look at things WE had on TV at the same time as TNG some of it wasn't much better. It may have had to adhere to different standards but it was still cringey in its own way.

I think one of the roots of the problem here is the clash between "supposedly enlightened future" and "American family TV standards in the late 80s/early 90s".

 

[Reymet_2]

I think one of the roots of the problem here is the clash between "supposedly enlightened future" and "American family TV standards in the late 80s/early 90s".

There's nothing implausible in assumption that moral standards in 24th century would be similar to that of American family TV of 80s.

 

[Jedman67]

Well, I think for Prime Time tv this was explicit enough

It's obviously not a friendship kiss, it's clearly romantic/sensual in nature.

Clearly the writers and directors intended for there to be sex. This was the closest they could come to show it, which is remarkably tame by modern standards.

 

[Skipper]

There's nothing implausible in assumption that moral standards in 24th century would be similar to that of American family TV of 80s.

Given the total number of non-cisgender characters appearing (zero) it's probably closer to that of the 50s.

 

[Skipper]

Clearly the writers and directors intended for there to be sex. This was the closest they could come to show it, which is remarkably tame by modern standards.

I think even by modern standards it's quite explicit. If I saw two people kissing like this, I would never think "ah it's just a purely platonic friendly greeting" .

 

[valkyrie013]

Americans are Prudes.. been like that for awhile
Show a phaser bursting a person's admomin and having a big slug come out of it.. No problem.
Bedroom sex scene even tame, under the sheets, only hugging.. .. Hell no..

But it was a a "family" show with a G/PG rateing usually.