What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Macintosh]

Has ST ever gone into why Berellians aren't suited to be engineers? Or featured the Berellians in any capacity? I'm intrigued now.

Not even in novels or comics, as far as I'm aware. We could have some fun conjecturing as to why. Extreme sensitivity to electrical discharge perhaps? Perhaps they're aquatic like dolphins and have no hands to use tools? Natural intense claustrophobia so they struggle on starships generally and would have a life-threatening panic attack if they had to go into a Jeffries tube?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Does it have more to do with prejudice than actual suitability? The character was trying to make a point using examples that, in his mind, were not prejudicial, but rather common sense. However, they might be bad examples, in universe, that are just as prejudicial as not having an android in command. We just don't know.

Would it have made the scene better if we knew for a fact that all his examples were equally species-ist?

 

[Rahul]

One of the problems is the nature of the beast when it comes to Hollywood at the moment, of whether you could get that kind of investment for a non-action oriented Trek movie? Once you're talking about a theatrical release, the powers that be at Paramount want something action-oriented and have used Wrath of Khan as a template for a long-time as to what they think a Trek movie has to be (i.e., a movie centered around stopping a big, bombastic villain with "universal armageddon" at stake).

I remember it being argued as to whether you could do a movie like The Motion Picture or even The Voyage Home given the current dynamics of Hollywood production. Could you do a 2-hour Trek movie that was an exploration of a weird alien encounter that doesn't have a villain or a 2-hour Trek comedy with whales that has no big action set piece and get it greenlit by Paramount executives?

I think that it's more likely that if something like that were to be greenlit today it become something that happens for a streaming service, either as a TV movie or limited series, instead of being a theatrical release.

Funny thing is: With that type of budget you can still do an action-heavy movie!

Remember: The finale of Iron Man 1 was two dudes fighting on a highway near a reactor. The final set piece of Thor 1 was on a parking lot in New Mexico. X-Men 1 mostly in the gift shop at the entrance to the statue of liberty. Those were all movies in that budget range.

By Iron Man 3, Thor Ragnarok, Avengers Endgame those types of movies always ended with a half hour, fully animated action schlock fest with thousands of CGI stick figures smashing into each other to save the universe or planet Earth. Those movies all cost as much as "Beyond", and needed to earn ridiculous amounts of money just to be profitable.

TMP was a super expensive movie for it's time. TWOK was absolutely not. Earned less money. But had higher profit.

Fully agree this is not purely a Star Trek problem. It's a current Hollywood problem in general. Hopefully some of the recent box office disasters will bring a return of these "mid" budget movies - that's IMO the sweet spot for Trek. Needs to have some show value. But cannot be counted on to be a super giant crowd pleaser.

 

[fireproof78]

I blame CGI. Phil Tippet was right.

 

[TheAdmiralty]

What's so odd is, Voyage Home made more money than Wrath of Khan, so why is Khan still the one to emulate?

tbf every Star Trek movie would be improved by the First Officer acting like he's high the entire time, the climax of the movie being the crew having a water fight and splashing each other, and of course lots of colorful metaphors.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What's so odd is, Voyage Home made more money than Wrath of Khan, so why is Khan still the one to emulate?

Just combine them: First Contact.

 

[UssGlenn]

Well we know that the studio forced a bunch of comedy into ST5 after the success of 4. I guess the failure of 5 turned them off funny Trek, then they tried to do it again with insurrection, where humor is mismatched with the serious plot, and got burned again.

 

[Macintosh]

I liked the humour in Insurrection

 

[BillJ]

I liked the humour in Insurrection

I like the Gilbert and Sullivan routine. After that? The movie completely lost me. I consider it the worst Trek movie, by a wide margin.

 

[Tallguy]

I have to say that after Data said "Oh, SHIT!" and it pretty much worked and got a big laugh in Generations that they would lean into that with First Contact. Thankfully my fears were misplaced.

Just as the early 90's was in many ways the high point for TNG era Trek, 1986 with the 20th anniversary (!!!) and The Voyage Home being a big hit was the high point for TOS era Trek.

 

[ananta]

I have to say that after Data said "Oh, SHIT!" and it pretty much worked and got a big laugh in Generations that they would lean into that with First Contact. Thankfully my fears were misplaced.

I wanted to kill Data in that movie. Between “lifeforms, oh little lifeforms”, “Mr TRICORDER!!!” and the manic laughter…he was just annoying as hell. Brent Spiner is great when he reins it in, otherwise he has a tendency to be hammier than Shatner on steroids. I also still don’t get the reasoning behind taking the show’s most popular character and turning him into an unrecognisable caricature for their first movie. But then so much of it was misjudged—which is TNG movies in a nutshell unfortunately.

1986 with the 20th anniversary (!!!) and The Voyage Home being a big hit was the high point for TOS era Trek.

Not to mention, the success of TVH was what spurred them to commission TNG! Had that movie not been a hit…well, Trek may have ended decades ago when TOS movies had run their course.

 

[Tallguy]

Not to mention, the success of TVH was what spurred them to commission TNG! Had that movie not been a hit…well, Trek may have ended decades ago when TOS movies had run their course.

I always remember it that way as well, but the dates don't back it up. TNG was in the works and even announced before TVH premiered. It was announced on October 10th, apparently.

 

[ananta]

I always remember it that way as well, but the dates don't back it up. TNG was in the works and even announced before TVH premiered. It was announced on October 10th, apparently.

oh, wow, maybe that was an assumption on my part all along. I stand corrected! You learn something new each day.

 

[FormerLurker]

I wanted to kill Data in that movie. Between “lifeforms, oh little lifeforms”, “Mr TRICORDER!!!” and the manic laughter…he was just annoying as hell. Brent Spiner is great when he reins it in, otherwise he has a tendency to be hammier than Shatner on steroids. I also still don’t get the reasoning behind taking the show’s most popular character and turning him into an unrecognisable caricature for their first movie. But then so much of it was misjudged—which is TNG movies in a nutshell unfortunately.

The problem was that Generations, more than any other TREK film, was made for fan service. If you didn't know the lore you were out of luck in understanding what was going on with specific characters, mostly Data and Picard.

 

[Farscape One]

The problem was that Generations, more than any other TREK film, was made for fan service. If you didn't know the lore you were out of luck in understanding what was going on with specific characters, mostly Data and Picard.

I don't know if I'd agree with that statement. For Data, yes I agree, due to the emotion chip.

Not for Picard. It's made pretty clear in the movie that Jean-Luc was going to be the 'last Picard' because of Rene's death. Coming to terms with that kind of realization is not something needing TNG knowledge. He is facing mortality of his family name, and also his own mortality, and that's something many people can identify with. (I'd argue it was a great character beat for him, and one of the best parts of the story.)

If any movie could be classified as made more for 'fan service', it's FIRST CONTACT.

 

[Macintosh]

I like the Gilbert and Sullivan routine. After that? The movie completely lost me. I consider it the worst Trek movie, by a wide margin.

I liked all of it. It doesn't have much in the way of competition, admittedly, but to me it feels like the TNG movie most like a regular TNG two-parter without budget constraints.

In fact I may well prefer Insurrection to First Contact... how's that for a controversial opinion

 

[BillJ]

In fact I may well prefer Insurrection to First Contact... how's that for a controversial opinion

I think Nemesis is the best of the TNG movies.

 

[Macintosh]

I think Nemesis is the best of the TNG movies.

Yup... I can't match that for controversy.

 

[fireproof78]

The problem was that Generations, more than any other TREK film, was made for fan service. If you didn't know the lore you were out of luck in understanding what was going on with specific characters, mostly Data and Picard.

I'd agree to a point. If gives some clues with Picard and the the family photo albumn. Of course, the weight of it would only be carried by further knowing lore and of Rene's dreams. It's somewhat offset by the Nexus but I think it cannot land fully.

Plus the Duras sisters, Romulans going nowhere, emotion chip, and so much. It's a dense script.

 

[BillJ]

Episodic series structure is better than serialization, where Trek is concerned.