Spoilers Marvel's Echo on Disney+

[Skipper]

It's definitely something I've noticed recently where people who don't like something declare it a failure regardless of how it actually performed.

Remember when people said that DIS was a failure, the series was being canceled and that the announcement of new seasons was just a feint so as not to upset the shareholders?

We live in a world where people no longer understand the difference between personal opinion and objective reality.

Whether a series is a "failure" or not depends on many factors, many of which are simply unknown to the general public and which probably only studio accountants know.

 

[Dee1891]

I'm sorry, but I personally feel it's a failure. For me, it feels like a poorly made stepping stone for the return of "Daredevil". If you feel differently . . . OK. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Tuskin38]

How can failure be an opinion? It's something that can be measured.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm sorry, but I personally feel it's a failure. For me, it feels like a poorly made stepping stone for the return of "Daredevil". If you feel differently . . . OK. Different strokes for different folks.

But why feel sorry for Cox at all? If it's a failure by your measure, then it just is. Unless she never gets work again then I might feel sorry for her. But, regardless of the failure status or how one perceives it, she got paid.

How can failure be an opinion? It's something that can be measured.

Failure as a creative work, not a money making venture. I feel this is fairly understandable.

Whether a series is a "failure" or not depends on many factors, many of which are simply unknown to the general public and which probably only studio accountants know.

Sure, but not all the failure is just "did it make money?" Hell, to me, that's the least important question as an audience member. Why should I care about the money part of something? It's not my money, I don't make any money from it, and I don't lose any money by it not succeeding. I really don't lose anything. So, that sense, failure is more likely to be on the creative side. Did it fail to engage me, entertain me, move me on an emotional level, which is the purpose of art? If it didn't, then yes, that is subjective but also a failure.

 

[MikHutch]

Didn't Aquaman 2 make a lot of money?

Also, not everyone engages with something in the same way. One's failure is another's success and vice versa

 

[Skipper]

Didn't Aquaman 2 make a lot of money?

Also, not everyone engages with something in the same way. One's failure is another's success and vice versa

It's literally impossibile that everyone likes a work of fiction. Even The Godfather and Citizen Kane have their detractors. But nowadays, in a polarized and fractious world everyone think their opinion is only one that matters. So people don't say "I didn't like this" anymore, but "This is a FAILURE!!!".

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Didn't Aquaman 2 make a lot of money?

Also, not everyone engages with something in the same way. One's failure is another's success and vice versa

A2 is currently struggling to reach 400m ww. Relative to its reported production budget of over 200m that's very bad. It just gets some good press on account of how many even worse bombs we've seen recently.

 

[Rich Watson]

A2 is currently struggling to reach 400m ww. Relative to its reported production budget of over 200m that's very bad.

And there's no way the 200m figure includes the multiple reshoots and (admittedly smaller than normal) promotion budget.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Informative interview with Marion Dayre, head writer of Echo, whose other work includes "Better Call Saul".

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[fireproof78]

But nowadays, in a polarized and fractious world everyone think their opinion is only one that matters. So people don't say "I didn't like this" anymore, but "This is a FAILURE!!!".

Man is the measure of all things.

 

[Dee1891]

But why feel sorry for Cox at all? If it's a failure by your measure, then it just is. Unless she never gets work again then I might feel sorry for her. But, regardless of the failure status or how one perceives it, she got paid.

Failure as a creative work, not a money making venture. I feel this is fairly understandable.


Sure, but not all the failure is just "did it make money?" Hell, to me, that's the least important question as an audience member. Why should I care about the money part of something? It's not my money, I don't make any money from it, and I don't lose any money by it not succeeding. I really don't lose anything. So, that sense, failure is more likely to be on the creative side. Did it fail to engage me, entertain me, move me on an emotional level, which is the purpose of art? If it didn't, then yes, that is subjective but also a failure.

Why can't I just feel sorry for Cox? Perhaps she doesn't need my sympathy, but this is my reaction to a series I had hoped I would enjoy. I had enjoyed her performance in "Hawkeye" and hoped I would enjoy "Echo". But I didn't. And many seemed more concerned about Daredevil and Fisk than they are about Echo. At least to me.

Why do you react as if I'm not allowed to have different opinions about "Echo"? That was me expressing my honest feelings about the series. I'm not simply trying to be contrary or anything like that.

 

[fireproof78]

Why can't I feel sorry for Cox? Perhaps she doesn't need my sympathy, but this is my reaction to a series I had hoped I would enjoy. I had enjoyed her performance in "Hawkeye". Why do you react as if I'm not allowed to have different feelings about "Echo". This is me expressing my honest feelings. I'm not simply trying to be contrary or anything like that.

I'm trying to figure out why I should feel sorry for her if she got paid? There are a lot of different shows out there that I don't enjoy but I don't ever think the actors need my sympathy. Now, I might want sympathy from others if I didn't enjoy a work, but unless a film completely bombs out or an actor is unfairly treated or fired, I don't feel a need for sympathy just because the actor was in a work I didn't like.

You can feel how you want. I'm confused for why to feel sorry for an actor at all in a work that didn't entertain me. I get not liking it. But, did Cox do something wrong warranting sympathy? Did she get a raw deal?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Strange to feel sorry for someone with literally no acting experience who is given a chance to have a lead role in an MCU series on Disney.

 

[Skipper]

Strange to feel sorry for someone with literally no acting experience who is given a chance to have a lead role in an MCU series on Disney.

She actually the most pitiable human being on the planet right now, you know. /s.

 

[Skipper]

By the way, if we were to feel sorry for Cox, the protagonist of a somewhat successful series on Disney+, which people talk about and who is invited to talk shows, what should we feel for Leslie Grace, the protagonist of a Batgirl that won't come out never? The same feelings we have, I don't know, for Syrian orphans?

 

[Skipper]

One final consideration (which risks being in bad taste): we are talking about a disabled Native American female actress who is deaf. I doubt there are many roles in Hollywood that require this set of characteristics. "Echo" will probably be the last time this actress will be the main protagonist of anything. Probably in the best case scenario she will end up as a supporting character in some HBO thriller movie set on an Indian reservation.

We should be happy for her for this incredible opportunity that she has had.

 

[Christopher]

we are talking about a disabled Native American female actress who is deaf. I doubt there are many roles in Hollywood that require this set of characteristics.

Roles can be rewritten to fit their performers. Echo in the comics doesn't have a prosthetic leg; the character was given that trait because the actress they chose as the best candidate for the role happened to have a prosthetic leg. It's no different from changing, say, Heimdall's ethnicity to fit Idris Elba, or changing the New York-born Charles Xavier into an Englishman to fit Patrick Stewart. So there's no reason in the world why Alaqua Cox couldn't play a character who wasn't originally conceived as Native American, deaf, or having a prosthetic. They'd simply adjust the character to fit the person they cast, as films and TV shows have been doing for generations.

 

[1001001]

Finished it.

My wife and I really enjoyed Echo.

A

 

[Tuskin38]

And many seemed more concerned about Daredevil and Fisk than they are about Echo. At least to me.

Not seeing that anywhere myself.

 

[fireproof78]

One final consideration (which risks being in bad taste): we are talking about a disabled Native American female actress who is deaf. I doubt there are many roles in Hollywood that require this set of characteristics. "Echo" will probably be the last time this actress will be the main protagonist of anything. Probably in the best case scenario she will end up as a supporting character in some HBO thriller movie set on an Indian reservation.

We should be happy for her for this incredible opportunity that she has had.

I agree. That's kind of my point. She has shared that it was an incredibly opportunity, and it provided a positive work environment. I hope it gives her more work opportunities as well as a window in to her culture.